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To: lacrew
But now that we’re talking about it, the GOP of the 1860-1880 era was very different than conservatives today. The civil war and avalanche of ammendments that followed dealt a crippling blow to states rights as envisioned by the framers of the constitution.

Other than the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment, what “avalanche of ammendments” are you talking about?

Slavery was wrong, although not extraordinarily rare in that era. And frankly the only reason western nations no longer use slaves or colonies is the industrial revolution....were aren’t nearly as moral as we presume.

Yes, the cotton gin was part of that industrial revolution, but it increased slavery.

But no matter how immoral, the correct remedy under the constitution for a state that leaves the Union in.....nothing. Nothing at all. Not miltary force. So the Republicans of the era got it wrong. Their high minded ends did not justify the means, from a constitutional perspective.

Not sure where you get this information. The democrats controlled the presidency, senate and congress until it imploded in the 1850’s because some wanted slavery in all the new states and some wanted it divided. Demorat James Buchanan could have held the nation together but let it fall apart. The demorats began firing on Fort Sumter in January of 1860 – months before Lincoln took office and could do anything – and that’s when the war began.

The Demorat states of the South had already penned their defense of slavery in the secession documents. It was the Demorat South that was wrong, not the Republicans of the era.

Fast forward to today - where in the constitution do it give anyone the right to ban a flag? If your neighbor flies a confederate flag, try not caring about

As I stated in post 47, I get tired of conservatives being labeled as racists holding this flag in text books that my college kids bring home, and never is it stated that it belonged to demorats! I particularly don't care if the flag stays or goes, but I want the history of it to be correct - the history belongs to the Demorat Party.

58 posted on 07/01/2015 10:57:10 PM PDT by celmak
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To: celmak

“Other than the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendment, what “avalanche of ammendments” are you talking about?”

Oh, the 14th and 15th in particular constitute that avalanche. From abortion to gay marriage, we have felt the impact of the 14th ever since. And up until just two years ago, the 15th made the southern states crawl forward and bow before their federal masters and beg permission to make their own voting laws.

“Yes, the cotton gin was part of that industrial revolution, but it increased slavery.”

You picked one waypoint along the road to industrialization...but not the end state. Cotton is now picked by machines and my original point is valid.

“The demorats began firing on Fort Sumter in January of 1860 – months before Lincoln took office and could do anything”

First of all, they fired on Fort Sumter in 1861...not 1860. And it wasn’t in January, it was in April. And it wasn’t before Lincoln took office - it occurred a month after he took office. So please revise your history lesson.

Now as to why. By April, South Carolina had been separated from the Union for 4 months. It would be like having a Mexican army base in Dallas, today. The south and north negotiated the abandonment of many federal forts in that 4 month period. But there was no successful negotiation with Sumter. And the last straw...Lincoln made known his intention to re-supply the fort. Just imagine Mexico announcing a supply train was headed through Texas to supply their Dallas fort. South Carolina had decided to bow out of the compact of states, and was no longer part of the Union. The characterization of firing on Sumter as the aggressive catalyst of the war ignores the true situation. The aggressive act was maintaining an outpost on what was now foreign soil. IOW, the civil war is much more complicated than the sound byte history books you have read.

Now I understand your point...you don’t like the historical switcheroo that has occurred with both slavery and the civil rights movement, when it comes to the democrats. But why on earth join the anti-flag chorus at this time. To me its practically obscene...politicians are standing on a soap box propped up with dead bodies when they preach on this issue. The flag has gradually been pulled from statehouse domes over the years, and that trend, born from legislative and referendum action is likely to continue...IOW the people are deciding to leave the flag in the history books.

But now the rabble want to erase history, and act like the flag never existed. That type of stuff seems to go hand in hand with totalitarian dictators, and I want no part of it.


94 posted on 07/02/2015 8:45:34 AM PDT by lacrew
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