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To: rusty schucklefurd
it is a bit disingenuous to say that Jesus was endorsing slavery as an institution simply because He didn’t rebuke the centurion because he owned a slave.

No, it isn't. Nor is it disingenuous to point out that the ethics and morals of owning and working slaves was referenced in Numbers and Deuteronomy; likewise, Abraham's wife Sarah owned the slave-woman Hagar, a "woman of Egypt", and Sarah even pimped Hagar to Abraham as a vehicle for a child, when Abraham and Sarah were childless but after God had promised them that Sarah, who was very old, would bring forth the child would would be the progenitor of Israel.

Of course, that was a sin, but Abraham and Sarah sinned not in owning Hagar, nor even in progenerating on her (she bore Ishmael, whose descendants are the House of Araby), but in doubting God's word and proceeding as if He had not uttered His promise to Abraham.

77 posted on 06/20/2015 2:11:13 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("If America was a house , the Left would root for the termites." - Greg Gutfeld)
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To: lentulusgracchus

wonder why moslems say ‘give me an open window’ ... no daylight moves a moslem but ‘in the end’ the words so hard to find are jihad ...


79 posted on 06/20/2015 2:14:41 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Do what is Right ... It causes liberal heads to explode!)
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To: lentulusgracchus

re: “No, it isn’t. Nor is it disingenuous to point out that the ethics and morals of owning and working slaves was referenced in Numbers and Deuteronomy;. . .”

It is disingenuous for you to insinuate that Jesus was some how endorsing slavery by not rebuking the Roman centurion for owning a slave.

The issue was whether or not Russell Moore was incorrect in saying that the Christian world view holds slavery or the idea of owning another person as abhorrent - you claimed he was incorrect in that statement. I demonstrated that, from Christian, New Testament theology, slavery and the idea of owning another human being as a slave/property has become abhorrent.

Now, you’ve changed to the Old Testament, where it is true that slavery was practiced and allowed under Old Testament Covenant Law. However, there were different kinds of “slavery”. The Antebellum South tended to lump all its forms into one thing, which is incorrect and also disingenuous.

For one, there were slaves who were what we would call “indentured” servants/slaves, who voluntarily sold themselves into slavery to pay off a debt. They could purchase their way out of such slavery.

Two, there were slaves who were people taken in combat or a nation conquered by Israel. These persons were slaves as the result of warfare.

It was a violation of God’s law to take a person, who was not at war with Israel, or did not have an unpaid debt - to basically kidnap them in order to sell them into slavery:

“Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.” Exodus 21:16

“If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.”
Deuteronomy 24:7

There were also slaves that were people bought from other nations. This is probably the closest thing to the institution of slavery in the antebellum South. Yet, even here, if any slave was hurt by the slave owner with a debilitating injury, such as the loss of an eye or tooth, that slave was to be set free to help make up for that loss.

What you are missing is that with Christianity, as Paul said, in Christ there is no slave or free, Jew nor Greek, male nor female - we are all one in Christ. It was the theology of that passage, and others, that led to the full abolition of slavery in the Christian world. How can I make a slave or treat as just a piece of property, my Christian brother or sister? It is true that Paul did not push for slavery’s abolition himself, but he did give strict guidelines by which Christians who owned slaves were to treat them - and, how to view them - as equals in Christ.

Again, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:22-23,

“For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings.”

“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free. And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.”

The point is, from the Christian perspective, slavery was eventually seen as evil and inhumane. It was Christianity that led to it’s demise. There is no denying that.


96 posted on 06/20/2015 3:09:43 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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