Posted on 05/05/2015 4:19:18 PM PDT by navysealdad
A Baltimore police officer charged over the death of Freddie Gray has attempted to compel the Baltimore state’s attorney Marilyn Mosby to produce the knife Gray was arrested for carrying, contending that it was an illegal weapon and as such Gray’s arrest was justified.
(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...
there is some law to support the prosition that he should not run from the police but he still would have the right to walk calmly away. Therefore, that part may just boil down to (a debate about the allowable infrinces of running in that jurisdiction) and the basic fact whether he really was running or just walking fast, etc.
Not the srongest of charge factors, to be sure.
Whatever a ‘hand to hand to hand transaction’ may be is anyone’s guess. And just how illegal that may be? Or suspicious even? Are people required to keep their hands in their pockets while they walk the public way, or perhaps are they required to keep their hands open and in plain view while ambulating about town, or?
Again, I can see that it may be possible to raise enough inference to stop the man, but again a right to stop is not a right to arrest and a stopped person still has the right to walk freely away if s/he wishes (to upset the officer).
I have no way of assessing these things and I am unfamiliar with the local law there, too. So I will quiet down. I only say that the case for arrest does NOT appear proven yet (from the obviously poor media reporting I’ve seen thus far).
The biggest issue will be his death in custody, of course, and not nearly as much the question of false arrest, anyway.
We will see.
I am fully aware that there are some very bad police officers.
These definitely need to be cleaned out...completely..for the public to continue to respect and support the rest of the cops who are honest and civil and worthy of our respect and support.
IMHO.
The standard for conviction is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Smart attorney is creating doubt.
The problem is, this will be an OJ jury. Likely the judge will be biased as well. The law will not matter. The justice of the mob will rule.
But Cold Steel is one of the few cutlery/knife companies that make a variety of machetes and I really like their folders and own several of them.
They used to use AUS-8A as their default steel on most of their folders, but have since upgraded to the CTS-XHP Alloy "supersteel" on many of their knives.
I will likely sell my Spyderco Civilian and buy the Black Talon II once it becomes available: 
When I bought my first Cold Steel Kukri, they included a booklet on the history of the knife. It actually goes all the way back to Alexander The Great’s army which invaded India.
The Greek soldiers used swords which looked similar to the Kukri. Some Indian soldiers liked them and produced their own version which in turn made it’s way to Nepal.
I can’t recall all the details.
A couple of friends of mine pulled a variant of that when we were in high school in the 60’s . One fellow drove thru a known area where high school kids went to drink/smoke MJ or make out with their GF. He went thru in his 57 Chevy at high speed pursued by the other fellow in his late model Chevelle with a red blinking light mounted on the dash. They went thru then parked with their lights out as the cars came ripping out of the area then went back in and picked up the dumped liquor and MJ. Nice haul only did it once though.
They never were made for clearing brush. They are more of a camp/all around work knife that was adapted for military purposes by the Nepalese. Contrary to popular opinion you can thrust with them. The target is the abdomen and the blade is held horizontal,cutting edge inward. Once the initial thrust is made the damage is done on the extraction. The curved blade does the work cutting from inside out. Instant disembowelment.
re. Baltimore state’s attorney Marilyn Mosby
Related FLASHBACK:
Within a few years, (Nick Mosby) had married his college sweetheart, Marilyn Mosby, a Baltimore assistant state’s attorney, and purchased a shell of a house in Reservoir Hill. The couple rebuilt it and are raising their daughters, ages 3 and 1, there.
Mosby launched a bid for the 11th District council seat in 2007, losing to Bill Cole, a former state delegate. He dug into community life, becoming president of the Bolton Park Neighbors, Inc. in 2008.
Chet Myers, the current president, said Mosby was instrumental in securing nonprofit status for the Bolton Park group and convincing the city to fence and provide water for a community park on Reservoir Street. Mosby also helped organize the home tour and worked with the community garden, he said.
“He’s very organized, and he’s always out there in the community,” Myers said.
Mosby positioned himself for another run for council, joining the board of the Midtown Community Benefits District and winning a seat on Baltimore’s State Democratic Central Committee.
This year, he learned that as part of Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake’s redrawing of district boundaries, Reservoir Hill was now in the 7th District. That meant he would face Conaway in the election.
Mosby says he mapped out a strategy early, tapping a close circle of relatives, friends and neighbors to become the core of his campaign. He scored a significant win in snaring the services of the influential fundraiser Colleen Martin-Lauer, who manages finances for the campaigns of Rawlings-Blake, Gov. Martin O’Malley and about half of the council.
Councilman wants Baltimore to boycott Florida after Zimmerman trial
Mosby says Florida’s stand-your-ground law encourages ‘vigilantes’
August 09, 2013
If Councilman Nick Mosby has his way, Baltimore government would boycott Florida-based businesses in protest to the state’s stand-your-ground law after George Zimmerman’s acquittal.
Mosby intends to file a resolution on Monday to encourage city agencies and investment boards to avoid doing business with companies in the Sunshine State. He hopes that would pressure the legislature there to rethink a law that allows individuals to use lethal force, if necessary, to defend themselves in public places.
The resolution also calls on city officials to avoid traveling to Florida or attending events in the state.
“Ultimately, the purpose of the legislation is to call to attention to an issue I think is very severe, and is not just a Florida issue but an American issue,” Mosby said. “I never want to see another Trayvon Martin again in my lifetime, nor do I want to see another policy that exacerbates the social issues we have in this country.”
++++++++
Councilman’s Star Rises Fast Amid Baltimore Unrest
APRIL 30, 2015
Mosby ran, in part, on a vow for more police accountability — the city’s police force has a well-earned reputation for excessive force. He tried to improve the relationship between the department and the folks they police.
The Freddie Gray case falls right at the nexus of those issues.
I’ve known a few guys that were knife men.
One you wouldn’t want to fool with even if you had a knife and he didn’t.
If he wanted a knife he would take yours.
If he had a knife you better have a gun and you had better not get anywhere near him.
I don’t like the thought of getting cut up.
A few years ago a guy was selling walking sticks made out of the barrels taken off 98 Mauser rifles.
He would cut them down to the right length, put a pool ball on the already threaded end and a rubber stopper on the other end.
Bar mace.
Didn’t take skill just the will to hit someone with it.
I’m still curious regarding the make/model knife Gray was carrying and the PC that addresses knife laws in the jurisdiction in which he was arrested.
And, was he a convicted felon and if so was carrying a legal knife a parole violation?
Regardless, this should go to a Grand Jury and not be influenced by a politically motivated AG
Among a jury made up of eligible Baltimoreans -- no history of felony convictions allowed -- will a 45 year old African American police officer, or a dead drug addict with a knife garner the most sympathy? They need 12 jurors for a conviction. I doubt they can get all 12, no matter how hard they try.
I can’t see this trial taking place in Baltimore and there is a valid argument for a change of venue.
No way can any of these officers get a fair trial in Baltimore, not that it should even go to trial which is why it should go to a Grand Jury.
But a politically motivated AG made that choice to appease rioters, just like that idiot Mayor gave them “space” to riot.
There is a mixing of terms here that need clarification. First, according to some reports, Freddie was observed by police in an area known for drug trafficking engaged in a hand to hand transfer of some item. (think money for drugs. Freddie was a known drug dealer and was known to several of the officers who observed the transfer. When Freddie made eye contact with the Lt., he broke and ran.
This is not “probable cause” to stop.
The Supreme Court has ruled that when police see what could be criminal activity (again, totality of the circumstances) the act rises to “reasonable suspicion” that a criminal act has occurred. This gives the police the right to conduct an investigation. Stop, pat down, question. When Freddie ran, the police had every right to pursue him to determine if a crime had indeed occurred.
Upon catching Freddie, during the pat down, the knife was discovered. According to the charge statement, Freddie was charged under the Municipal Code, which is more restrictive than the State Code. The discovery of the knife was the needed “probable cause” to charge Freddie with the supposed illegal knife.
When the States Attorney (ie District Attorney) said at the press conference that the knife was “legal” UNDER MARYLAND LAW, she was parsing words. She knew, or should have known that Freddied was charged under the Muni Code, and the knife, under that statute, was illegal.
As for the “chain of custody” the knife should have been, marked, tagged, and booked into the property section. When the prosecutor wants to examine the knife she would have to either have an officer sign it out of the property section, she could examine it and then he (the original officer) would have to return the knife to the property section. If she cannot show a clear chain of custody, the knife cannot be admitted as evidence. The case would be kicked on appeal.
The attorney’s who filed the motion today are going to argue that the knife does violate the Baltimore City Code, so any charge that deals with “unlawful arrest” would get dismissed.
As I understand it, the States Attorney was in private practice with an insurance company and has no experience in criminal law. She was trotted out as a candidate against the incumbent and pulled heavy minority support because she ran on “cleaning up the police department’.
There was a copy of the charge slip on FR over the weekend and it clearly showed he was charged under the Muni Code, so it appears she didn’t understand the nuances between the two.
One more thing...it was said (not confirmed) that Freddie was NOT a drug user, yet supposedly the preliminary toxicology report supposedly showed heroin and marijuana in his system. It is very common for dealers to “eat” the evidence in order to not get caught with it. With Freddie’s record, another “possession with intent to distribute” charge could have meant some serious hard time for him.
Is it possible that the effect of the heroin may have contributed to his thrashing about in the back of the wagon?
I guess we’ll have to see how this plays out.
Thanks. As I do t know the local law there I’ll quiet down. That sounds cogent however, if somewhat necessarily speculative at this early stage. One more issue may be whether the local city ordinance can legally be more restrictive then the state law. Perhaps what’s most interesting of all is the apparent incompetence of the state prosecutor. We will see how many millions of taxpayer dineros are spent trying to prosecute a dead man for a questionable and minor knife charge when the key public policy issue remains his cause of death while in supposedly safe police custody ( that question hangs over everything notwithstanding how he got nabbed or whether they was a lawful arrest or not). Thanks super for the very informative note. Best.
Marylin Mosby is dumb, doesn’t know the law.
At this point everything is speculative. I don’t know what happened in the back of that wagon any more than anyone else other than the six cops and Freddie (and he ain’t talking).
And as a retired LEO who spent the majority of my career working in the inner city of a relatively large city, it bothers me that some guys think that the badge makes them judge, jury, and executioner.
Working in a minority community is tough. There is a natural suspicion of police (primarily young people) and some of it is because it is justified and a great deal more of it is because of the race hustlers who blow into a town and agitate the locals, coerce corporations to make large donations to keep peace and then blow out of town.(Are your ears burning Jesse and Al).
If these guys are dirty, then let the system convict them. BUT, let them have the constitutional protections we all ask for. Just because they wear a uniform doesn’t mean they are second-class citizens either.
One more thing...I’d bet the reason Freddie was charged under the Muni Code was two-fold. One because it is very loosely written and the other is because all the fines and court costs stay in the city. If they would have charged him under State code, the State would have gotten the money.
Just my experience.
Can’t wait for the preliminary hearing.
I agree. “Illegal knife” is stupid and completely Un-Constitutional.
L
“I don’t know if they *all* are guilty or *all* should be charged but I think some of them should.”
Care to list the crimes they should be charged with and the evidence to support the charges?
” I suspect the statute was referring to the Buck 110 “
Why do you suspect the Buck 110?
Agreed. We either find ways to clean out the bad cops or else a whole lot of us “rock solid middle class suburbanite conservatives” or whatever — wl finally decide the police are a big part of the problem. Police work depends a lot on the wider public respecting and supporting the good officers.
A I can say is that it doesn’t take many rotten apples to spoil the entire Apple crate. Right now the many good officers need to speak up and lead the cleanup - stop their code of silence protecting the scum wearing badges. Then we can get back to good normal situation again. And yes, I’ve seen and experienced both very high quality and helpful policing and also some of the thug- thief- liar scum types wearing our badges. Cleanup is essential even though I fear some of these mass media circus incidents may be staged a lot for radical political agendas We will see thanks
Obviously he was guilty of driving while black.
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