Re: “So you’re saying your salvation and my salvation - it’s up to us ? I say the words, and I’m saved ? “
No, I am saying that the gospel of Calvinism gives no assurance of salvation because God does all the choosing regardless of what you do, say or think or believe. Whatever you think you know or think you believe - you have no sure way of knowing if God loves you and elected you to salvation.
Thinking you accepted Christ as your Savior, thinking you have repented, thinking you believe in Jesus’s death, burial, and resurrection does not mean necessarily that you are one of the Elect. None of your thoughts or actions have anything to do with God’s election.
Calvinism’s God has “limited atonement” (limited love). Calvinism’s God condemns some babies, even unborn babies to eternal hell. Calvinism’s God turns love, courage, sacrifice, humility, cowardice, despair, selfishness, etc. into meaningless words because we only “act out” a predetermined blueprint set in motion by Calvin’s God.
There is no human will - only automatons carrying out predetermined thoughts and actions, yet are held accountable by Calvinism’s God. Calvinism’s God says that when Jesus said, “God so loved the world”, he didn’t really mean it. When Paul says “whoever will call upon the name of the Lord” it doesn’t really mean “whoever will”. When Peter says that God does not desire that any should perish, he didn’t really mean that.
Look, I said before this is not going to change each other’s minds on this subject. I believe that you sincerely love the Lord and are trying to serve Him as best you can in the power of the Holy Spirit. We will find out the answers to all these things one day in God’s glorious Kingdom. So, I will just let it go at that. You can have the last word.
Just simple logic Rusty - what is your assurance ? I know you don’t see mine (I’ll provide it), but what is your assurance ?
How do you know you are saved ?
The "gospel of Calvinism", i.e. the biblical teaching on soteriology, is the only thing that can provide assurance of salvation precisely because of its monorgistic (i.e. God doing everything) nature. Would you not in a heartbeat sooner trust God than fickle man? Or is God somehow not trustworthy to save and pass by whomever He desires and according to His secret purposes?
The notion of "accepting" - i.e. tolerating or putting up with - the sovereign Creator of the universe (Jesus is, after all, fully God and fully man) is, frankly, naive.
Rusty, here’s a great assurance chapter. As you can see, it’s based on evidence and testimony. It is an incredibly rich portion of Scripture; I wrote up, just for my own understanding, a little analysis. This chapter is very challenging, IMHO, but incredibly wonderful in its witness and richness of its meaning.
This is just one part of assurance, certainly other parts of Scripture can be applied to the topic.
Put plainly, the true believer does not place their faith in their own abilities or their own righteousness, but they place their faith in God fulfilling his promises. Of course this winds up being most comforting, as there is no object of faith more certain.
1 John 5
“1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
To clarify a bit further some points:
From the point of view of my mind - nothing is predetermined.
I can not predict the future. I do not know what the future holds. I could walk out my door tomorrow and a piano could fall on my head and kill me. I have no idea of anything about what will happen tomorrow.
So I can not use predestination as an excuse for me to not follow God’s commandments.
I am without excuse. I simply need to obey God’s commandments if I love God as I profess to love God.
If I do not obey God’s commandments but I profess to love God, I am a lying hypocrite.