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To: rusty schucklefurd
The whole mission and ministry of Jesus was about loving the sinner to save us from the destruction of our sin. I think you misunderstand the premise of the New Testament.

“But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in tha while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8


All men fall short of the glory of God, so yes, all men are sinners. But when you say "the sinner" we must be clear that Jesus did not die for all men, only the elect. Those who are not among the elect are damned to hell, and if they were loved by Christ and God the Father they most certainly would not spend eternity in hell.

"All" sinful men are either among the elect (see 27 occurrences of words beginning elect* in the Bible) or... they are not.

Those who are not among the elect are sinners that are not those which Jesus prayed for in John 17. In his prayer to God, Jesus was very specific that he was only praying to God for his disciples:

John 17:"9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."

and for the elect which were to come after them:

John 17:20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"

The Bible tells us that Jesus hates sin:

Hebrews 1:9 "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Except we repent and believe, Jesus tells us we shall perish:

Luke 13

"2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Repentance is always required, consistently throughout the Bible, for forgiveness.

Those who are not among the elect are unprentant sinners that are not believers in Christ and are destined for a lake of fire.

Romans 5:8 does remind the believer that God loved them while they were still sinners - thus this means the believer has nothing to boast of, as their election is of God, not their own doing.

We can note that the phrase "while we were still sinners" is in the past tense, indicating that the people the chapter is speaking of are no longer sinners in the same sense that they were. This fits in with the rest of Romans which frequently exhorts the believer to "put off the old man", to repent and turn away from one's sins, etc., as do other New Testament books. Continuing to live a sinful life is explicitly rejected in the New Testament, which makes it clear that the true believer must not and will not find the atoning sacrifice of Jesus' precious blood a license to sin, God forbid. While we can not attain sinless perfection, Romans is very clear that we must continually repent of, i.e., acknowledge and turn away from, our sins as we become aware of committing them. And it tells us that the Holy Spirit dwelling within us is what makes living such a sanctified life possible, that man can not accomplish this apart from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
62 posted on 04/24/2015 1:32:42 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Re: “But when you say “the sinner” we must be clear that Jesus did not die for all men, only the elect.”

You and I are not going to agree on this. I do not believe that Calvinism’s God is the God of the Bible. Obviously you do. I’ve been through all of this with a very close friend and I really don’t care go through it with you.

I guess my one observation would be is, with the God of Calvinism, one has no assurance that one is saved, nor can you tell your family members or friends that God loves them and wants them to come to salvation, because you don’t know that either. What do you tell your children, that MAYBE God loves them, or that maybe He wants them to fry in Hell for eternity? I mean who knows? It could be either.

Just because you “think” you are saved is no guarantee that you are - remember nothing you do or say or think has anything to do with your salvation - it is all up to God’s own choosing. Maybe you just think you are saved, or God has sent a “lying” spirit to you. You never know for sure. It doesn’t matter what you think you believe - it is totally up to God. It would be arrogant to believe that YOU are among the chosen Elect. What real assurance do you have of salvation? A feeling? A belief you think you hold? Pretty shakey foundation.


75 posted on 04/24/2015 7:35:44 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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