Indiana Pizzeria Owners Say They’d Deny LGBT People Service – And Yelp Commenters Weren’t Having It

Buzzfeed ^ | 4/1/2015 | Mary Ann Georgantopoulos

[Lady4Liberty]

The owners of a small pizzeria in Indiana were seemingly the first business to say they would publicly deny service to LGBT couples in the wake of Indiana’s new and controversial Religious Freedom Law.

Shortly after Memories Pizza owners agreed in a local newscast that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act allows them to deny service to LGBT people who wanted their pizza at a same-sex wedding, 1-star Yelp reviews rolled in denouncing the business.

[Bob434]

like I said- it’s apparent you have no interest in discussing the issue in a mature manner- have a nice day

[sickoflibs]

RE:”like I said- it’s apparent you have no interest in discussing the issue in a mature manner- have a nice day”

Its night-time here,
Do you live in Israel where its day now?

[PieterCasparzen]

The New Testament also tells us that Jesus Christ does indeed hate sin (iniquity); in Hebrews 1:9...

Hebrews 1

“1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

It also clearly teaches that all the elect were chosen by God from the beginning of time in Ephesians 1:4-5...

Ephesians 1

“1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”

Thus, all those who were not chosen before the foundation of the world, are not among God’s elect. The unregenerate are destined for a lake of fire - and rightfully so, as God’s justice is perfect.

It’s hard for us to accept this as obstinate as we are and being born into sin. In our obstinance we fail to notice that from our point of view - we don’t know, while we’re mired in sin, before our conversion... that we may be among the elect ! While I was lost in sin, before my conversion to Christ - I did not have access to God’s “list” of the elect and to see into my own future. From God’s point of view, the plan was always in place. My marriages, divorces, a whole long list of sins... ups and downs of life... finally completely out of the blue while reading up on my ancestry, I got off track and started reading about the Reformation. There’s just no way someone not born again can know whether they are doomed or just not YET born again (converted to Christ). Since they can’t know for sure that they are doomed to eternal damnation - they can not use “I’m doomed from the beginning” as an excuse to not seek God.

The elect are “born again” of God:

Ephesians 2

“1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)”

The elect have zero to boast about as far as their salvation:

Ephesians 2

“8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”

God loves the elect - though they are in a cycle of stumbling and sinning then turning back to God and repenting, whatever they do or say that glorifies God... they only do because of God. God’s Holy Spirit dwells within the believer:

1 Corinthians 6:19 “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”

[sickoflibs]

RE:”The New Testament also tells us that Jesus Christ does indeed hate sin “

That has NOTHING to do with this discussion .

It was about if Jesus loves or hates sinners, not that he loves sin.
Sin is homosexual behavior. Sinners are homosexuals;.
It started here #110

I asked them for quotes from Jesus saying that he hates sinners

Then a few fools jumped in started posting quotes of Jehovah from the Torah (Old Testament) and claiming that was really Jesus talking to the Jews, same ones who were sacrificing animals at the temple. When clearly us Christians do not follow Jewish law.

I simply asked for quotes from Jesus saying that he HATES sinners and they gave me bullcrap.

I kept quoting Jesus and they kept quoting Jehovah.

[Bob434]

[[I kept quoting Jesus and they kept quoting Jehovah.]]

No sir/madam, what you keep getting is the advice to Learn about the trinity- which you refuse- Jesus is God God is Jesus God the father, God the Son and God the Holy spirit- Learn about it sometime

[[Then a few fools]]

Again- you have proven incapable of mature discussion, and you have proven you aren’t willing to learn something so basic about God/Jesus that the whole Christian experience is based off the concept of the trinity, so It doesn’t really reflect well on you to be calling other people fools- We can’t help it if you refuse to educate yourself about something as basic as the trinity- and no matter how many times you claim we haven’t answered you, you will still be wrong about that - I gave you verse after verse after verse proving Jesus IS God- and quite frankly, I don’t know how you can call yourself a Christian IF you deny that Christ is God? You reject the very basic Christian premise of God the Father/Son/Holy Ghost, and then presume to lecture us about the bible? Really?

Again, careful throwing the word fool around- it’s not the children of God who understand His Holy trinity that are the fools-

[Bob434]

I believe sickoflibs is just a Free Republic troll- you and I both have provided ample evidence that Jesus IS God, yet he/she clamps their hands over their face and refuses to even acknowledge the verses - As you can see by his/her responses, you’ll get nothing in the way of mature conversation with him/her-

[sickoflibs]

Look, when you Pharisees went to stone the prostitute ~ 2000 years ago Jesus said
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

He made clear that he loved the sinners and hated the sin and told them to repent.

,

[Aut Pax Aut Bellum]

Funny how discriminating or even saying you don’t like gays is becoming a crime, but people threatening you physical harm for saying that is okay. Liberals are so amazingly hypocritical.

[Aut Pax Aut Bellum]

Christ said that if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink.
...then slit their throat, right? They are your enemy, and give them a chance, they'll do it to you.

[PieterCasparzen]

All men are born into sin.

There are two categories of men: a) the elect and b) those destined for a lake of fire.

There’s no “in-between” people mentioned in the Bible, you know, that are “ok people”, but “not into” believing in Christ as their Lord and Savior.

A person either loves Christ or hates him.

Those who hate Christ - does he love them ? He specifically did NOT pray for them in John 17 (see verses 6, 9, 10 and 20), just prior to his trial and crucifixion:

John 17

“1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.”

and verse 20:

“20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;”

Jesus was very specific: he’s not praying for “the world”, he’s praying for God’s elect.

In verses 10 and 11, Christ is perfectly clear that God GAVE the elect to him. Jesus is thus sheparding the flock that God gives him, God’s chosen.

God leaves the non-elect to their deserved eternal damnation; he would have to hate them to sentence them to that fate. Given how they reject the sacrifice of the precious blood of his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, the hatred certainly is righteous, he is simply hating those who hate him. Of course, God knows mens’ hearts - we do not. We do not know whether a person will be converted to Christ in the future, only God knows. We can only know what acts and words people do and discern from that whether a person is one to consider a fellow Christian or a heathen / pagan at a given point in time. This is why for believers it’s not so much a question of hating as it is discernment.

2 Corinthians 6:17 “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.”

The Word of God certainly tells us that apart from Christ there is no salvation, and the wicked remain unrepentant in their sins until their death and are destined for eternal damnation:

1 Corinthians 6

“9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.”

Yes, Jesus hates those who, in the end, reject him and thus are eternally damned.

[PieterCasparzen]

Look, when you Pharisees went to stone the prostitute ~ 2000 years ago Jesus said
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

He made clear that he loved the sinners and hated the sin and told them to repent.

There is a lot of misunderstanding of those passages in Scripture.

The passages are wrongly interpreted to mean that once we have professed a conversion, we profess faith in Christ as our Lord and Savior -

after that we will sin (we're all sinners, right ?)

and Jesus will keep wiping our slate clean. We keep sinning, he keeps forgiving.

And... which sins ? All sins. It covers everything.

And... how often ? Every day, all the time, 24x7. We can live a non-stop hedonistic anything-goes lifestyle. We can tell "little white lies". We can dress how we want to. We can be "flirty". We can party. We can be a really nasty backstabber, in a nice kinda way. Just keep asking for foregiveness, and Jesus forgives.

This type of thinking is a sinful deception which indicates that we definitely are not saved if we think this way.

One reason: it proves that we have not read - and taken to heart - other sections of Scripture that directly contradict this wrong teaching.

Another reason: Obviously we have simply devised for ourselves a license to sin. We've used a single passage from the Bible to rationalize our refusal to turn from our wicked ways.

Both Old Testament and New Testament reveal a God who first of all does not hear the prayers of those who are breaking his moral laws and not coming to him in repentance of those sins (Isaiah 1:15). In order to repent, one first needs to know what repent means. What does repentance involve ?

If one is not truly repentant, and continues in one's sin - one is mocking God and mocking his Law Word.

We should never consider a single Bible passage all by itself without also considering the whole counsel of God, i.e., thinking about it in context and in light of the rest of Scripture and all that it teaches. Every correct interpretation - will never contradict any other Biblical doctrine, as the Bible does not contradict itself.

In the case of living sinfully and thinking we have a license to sin, we need only look at this verse to see that there is no such thing:

Romans 6:15 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

Romans 6 is kind of a "must-read" to clear up one's thinking on the issue, at the very least. Study hint: it reminds us that the wages of sin is DEATH.

[sickoflibs]

RE:”All men are born into sin.”

Exactly!

Then lets us not join those who claim that Christ hates all us sinners.

God hates sin and we all need to hate it too and try better to resist it.
We need to condemn those promote sin like these LGBT libs who promote perversion.

But don't join those who deny what Christ preached and instead claim that all us sinners will rot in hell for eternity, as they are usually the worst sinners who claim this.

Lets do our best to convert others rather than drive them away to damnation.

[PieterCasparzen]

Lets do our best to convert others rather than drive them away to damnation.

The Bible does not say that WE CAN CONVERT anyone, nor does it say that we can drive anyone to damnation.

God's Holy Spirit converts, according to God's Sovereign Will.

God's Word the Bible tells us that we are to:

love God above all else,
love our fellow man,
learn and delight in God's Word,
be holy,
testify when it's time to testify,
quote from Scripture when it's time to do that,
be a salt and light unto the world.

We would need to learn what these teachings mean; we'd need to study the verses relating to them. By doing these, i.e., "living according to the Word", those whom God chooses will be drawn to him and his Word.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

The Bible tells us that the Word of God is a two-edged sword. What this means is that when the unconverted hear the Word of God, some will be drawn to it, others will reject it. The elect are being thus drawn to God's Word by his Holy Spirit working on their hearts, and the rest are rejecting once again their own opportunity to bow their knee to Christ as Lord and Savior. Thus - either way, it is efficacious. Since God's Word tells us this, it is comforting to know that it's not up to us, God has all things perfectly in his hand, and we can just focus on doing our part, living according to his Word.

The Bible prohibits the believer from adding to or taking away from God's Word. We can not change God's moral laws; if society wants to engage in sodomy, we can not testify that this is acceptable to God, for we would be liars, it is not.

There is no "watering down" of the God's Word to make it palatable to unbelievers or professing Christians who have apostasized. There is no fellowship with unbelievers where they go against God's Law:

2 Corinthians 6

"14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."

We live according to God's Word because the Bible commands us to and we do so out of joyful obedience. The Bible also tells us how we live affects what people think of Christians and Christianity. But Christians must not confuse this with thinking that they can cause a person's salvation or damnation.

God hates sin and we all need to hate it too and try better to resist it.

If the Holy Spirit is not dwelling within a person they can not overcome temptation. The only reason people can overcome their past wicked sinful patterns is because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

This is all in the Bible, and it's a really fascinating read when you have a good teacher/guide.

I have quoted Scripture, with some very brief explanations. I encourage you to go farther.

Here is a link to the Bible, Romans 6. From there you can search all around.

There are many things that one would never "get" without them being pointed out; for that reason, a good study guide is recommended. I recommend the Matthew Henry Bible Commentary for starters - it's available when you click on the link STUDY THIS, which is in a blue box at the top right of every chapter.

Please feel free to continue to discuss with me here; I just can't do justice to some of these broad topics in a short space with limited time.

[PieterCasparzen]

To make this simple, Christ hates non-elect sinners and loves elect sinners.

Elect sinners are saved.

Non-elect sinners are damned eternally.

All I can do for anyone is quote scripture and say a few words.

Whether a person is among God’s elect is not up to me, it’s up to God.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Yet in every state where homosexual marriage has been on the ballot, it has been defeated.

It was actually upheld in Maryland.

[Bob434]

[[I kept quoting Jesus and they kept quoting Jehovah.]]

Let’s make it clear to everyone here what you believe- You are saying the bible does NOT call Jesus
God despite the fact that it does, correct? So in essence you reject whole sections of God’s word that claim the diety of Jesus, correct?

[sickoflibs]

RE:”The Bible does not say that WE CAN CONVERT anyone”

That is Satan talking talking through you.
It is also Blasphemy.

Jesus told us repeatedly to tell us to convince others that he is their only salvation.

What are you a Satin worshiper???

[PieterCasparzen]

No, you are wrong on this point.

Do you know what the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is ?

Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Can you make God's Holy Spirit come to dwell within you or someone else ?

What if the person is not among God's elect ?

Can you overrule God, and force his Holy Spirit to dwell within a non-elect person, someone whom God does not want to save ?

Do you know there is a difference between me professing to believe in Christ and the Holy Spirit converting me ?

Do you know there are millions of people who profess Christ who are obviously not saved because they routinely commit wicked and sinful acts ?

There are a lot of people who SAY they believe in Christ and are "Christian" who never pick up their dusty Bible and have virtually no understanding of what they believe in.

Jesus told us repeatedly to tell us to convince others that he is their only salvation.

Cite Bible verses, if you please. Jesus never taught Christians to "convince others". He said "teach". This means to teach the Bible.

Matthew 28

"19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Those who will listen to the teachers can learn; those who refuse to learn will reject the teaching.

An intellectual understanding of Scripture is NOT ENOUGH for salvation. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens when a person is saved. I can yack away quoting from Scripture, teaching someone, and they can say "yes, yes" and understand the concepts. They may say they are "convinced". But the Bible tells us that unless they are one of God's elect, they are not saved.

Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

From Matthew Henry:

"Lastly, The parable is concluded with that remarkable saying which we had before (Matt. 20:16), Many are called, but few are chosen, Matt. 22:14. Of the many that are called to the wedding feast, if you set aside all those as unchosen that make light of it, and avowedly prefer other things before it; if then you set aside all that make a profession of religion, but the temper of whose spirits and the tenour of whose conversation are a constant contradiction to it; if you set aside all the profane, and all the hypocritical, you will find that they are few, very few, that are chosen; many called to the wedding feast, but few chosen to the wedding garment, that is, to salvation, by sanctification of the Spirit. This is the strait gate, and narrow way, which few find."

[Mad Dawgg]

There is a third. Using the wedge of the tax code's special treatment of marriage status and how Social Security does the same.

When you have an "equal treatment" specification in the founding documents and then over the years you start giving out goodies based solely on if you are married etc. You have served up a legal "fat pitch" to any group not included in the goodie give-away who are seeking equal treatment.

That is the real danger of ANY form of "social engineering" by the FEDGOV.

[DoodleDawg]

the pizza guys will happily, and intelligently, serve either individual gays or married gays, either in the shop or by delivery, provided the gays keep silent about their sexual proclivities

So in other words he's happy to serve gays as long as he doesn't know that they're gay? Ignorance is bliss and all that?