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Russian hopes of money, glory die on Ukraine battlefields
latimes.com ^ | March 24, 2015 | Carol J. Williams

Posted on 03/24/2015 3:27:24 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper

When Alexander Zhitinev left in November to fight with the pro-Russia separatists in eastern Ukraine, winter had just begun unleashing its fury on the wind-lashed steppe of this impoverished 18th century frontier town.

Zhitinev's work as a mechanic had dried up because laid-off metalworkers could no longer afford their cars. His family was surviving on about $250 a month from his wife's job as a hospital cook.

Zhitinev, 39, and a friend, Ilya Borisov, left their families behind, lured more by the promise of $2,600 a month than by the vision of their recruiters for a return of Russia's czarist imperial glory.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: crimea; donetsk; putinsbuttboys; russia; ukraine; vladtheimploder
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To: tcrlaf
As I have noted many times since this began, I don’t believe Russia has any interest in taking over all of Ukraine. It’s a wildly corrupt economic basketcase, even by Russian standards, and almost all of the valuable assets are in the Southeast anyway.

Russia and Ukraine are peas in a pod, economy- and corruption-wise. The difference is Russia has a continent's worth of resources in oil, gas, gold, and so on. Take away Russia's mineral resources, and it becomes a super-sized, nuclear-armed Ukraine.

21 posted on 03/24/2015 4:25:51 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: BeauBo
The poorer agricultural areas in the West with a higher percentage of Ukrainian speakers, are more of a charity case whose bills they would rather foist onto the West.

It really depends on the government. Ukraine's previous leaders have been Putin clones, competence- and ethics-wise, except Ukraine isn't, unlike Russia, the Saudi Arabia of the north, vis-a-vis natural resources. South Korea was the agrarian part of Korea, yet grew to dwarf its northern counterpart. It comes down to leadership. Ukraine doesn't need a genius to take the reins - someone like any of Central Europe's leaders will do.

22 posted on 03/24/2015 4:33:10 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: BeauBo
It is a bloody mess there for sure - a tragedy. I think that Ukraine is bankrupt now. That could be a factor driving a settlement. Domestic politics in both countries might also shift in a big way from the costs of the war.

It's a combo of not wanting to get killed and perhaps hoping to benefit from Russia's immense natural resources if the two countries merge*. Until Ukrainians show they are willing to fight and die in large numbers, the West will be largely hands-off. It took 100K dead on both sides in Syria within a year before Uncle Sam started making noises about supplying the rebels. A year after hostilities commenced, the death toll in the Ukrainian conflict is under 10K. This is more a shoving match rather than an all-out knock-down conflict.

* Without oil and gas, Russia's GDP per capita would be pretty close to Ukraine's.

23 posted on 03/24/2015 4:42:02 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: tcrlaf

How do you spell “Spetnaz”? Also, neo-fascist Russian motorcycle gangs are now being recruited by Putin to serve as shock troops in Ukraine. There was an article about the leader of one such group the other day. Full of tattoos and leather like “Sons of Anarchy”.

Yes, there are neo-fascist Russian groups and most are being allowed to function in both Russia and Ukraine as long as they don’t interfere with Putin’s activities.

Some of the best high-ranking East German cabinet officials during the 1950’s-60’s were former Nazi SS officers (i.e. Ernest Grossmann, Deputy Commandant of Sachsenhausen Concentration/Work camp), and others.

Information on them was given to me by the late Simon Wiesenthal (Vienna Documentation Center) which included captured Nazi Party/SS membership cards and both the English & German editions of “Former Pankow Nazis in the Service of East Germany” or similar German edition title, and “Former Nazis in the Service of the East German Government”.

Based on documents seized by the pro-democracy International Association of Jurists from Nazi/SS offices before the Russians could get to them (which they would use to blackmail Nazis into serving for Stalin/MKVD/KGB or face the firing squad).

Ah, the truth about the Cold War you won’t read about in American history books.


24 posted on 03/24/2015 4:52:23 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper (madmax)
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To: Zhang Fei

Putin has no troops on the Chinese border.


25 posted on 03/24/2015 5:40:46 PM PDT by Cossak
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Sounds like a battle of political attrition and propaganda, as to whose government will topple first. of course injecting accusations of Ukrainian. nazi is only meant to cause disloyalty or mistrust in Ukraine or, more effectively, NATO. The same peace process on Israel is used as a front for toppling the patriotic structure, one brick at a time.


26 posted on 03/24/2015 6:05:02 PM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall no)
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To: BeauBo

What isn’t widely recognized is how much money Ukraine spent on Crimean infrastructure after the Russians ceded it to them. The industrial areas that the Russians are decimating were an economic basket case before Russia invaded. They were a drain on the budget.


27 posted on 03/24/2015 6:20:52 PM PDT by meatloaf
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To: Zhang Fei

Ukrainian politician Tatiana Montyan has opinion that mainstream of Ukrainian events is oligarchic clans raiding each other assets. War always was reliable way to solve somebody’s financial problems.
Old Russian saying is when lords are fighting haircut of serfs suffers.


28 posted on 03/24/2015 6:48:11 PM PDT by Cossak
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To: Cossak

At 100 miles away because of a bilateral treaty, they’re not on the border itself, but they’re not there for show.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/east-asia-pacific/65117-does-anyone-know-what-russian-military-units-near-sino-russian-border.html


29 posted on 03/24/2015 7:33:45 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: meatloaf

So Ukrainian budget is better balanced now while Russian one is basket case.


30 posted on 03/24/2015 7:49:18 PM PDT by Cossak
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To: Pecos

The “Negros” bit is part of ongoing joke. Russian agitprop presented a witness who saw Negroes dancing on an armored personnel carrier.


31 posted on 03/24/2015 8:05:50 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: Cossak
This is what I'm watching: Russian Foreign Reserve

First column is the date, second column are the reserves in USDs (in millions) As of March 2015, $360 B

32 posted on 03/24/2015 8:15:44 PM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: Cossak
So Ukrainian budget is better balanced now while Russian one is basket case.

That will never be for as long as their elites pursue similar policies, but Russia has a continent's worth of natural resources. Think Saudi Arabia vs Yemen. Similar cultures, but one has oil whereas the other, mostly sand.

33 posted on 03/24/2015 8:44:43 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei; caww; 2ndDivisionVet; All

Actually we now have the 300 plus bipartisan House vote in favor of helping Ukraine with arms, etc. Any chance the Senate won’t also approve, or that Obama would veto?


34 posted on 03/24/2015 10:56:18 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: Cossak

The Ukrainians now have an American woman as their finance minister. I think she was born in the Midwest to Ukrainian parents. She was working at an NGO when Ukrainians streamed into Kiev to protest the previous president’s move away from the EU.


35 posted on 03/25/2015 7:39:57 AM PDT by meatloaf
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To: meatloaf; All

Poroshenko this morning:

“Cynical Banderites, armed thugs in military fatigues have been robbing,cowardly murdering Ukrainians”

WOW....
Poro about to go after the Nazi’s.
Grab your popcorn, this could be fun!!!

“Anti-Terrorist Operation” announced for the Odessa region, to start immediately.


36 posted on 03/25/2015 9:21:09 AM PDT by tcrlaf (They told me it could never happen in America. And then it did....)
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To: Zhang Fei
Those troops purpose is preventing World terrorists attacks. Putin conducts regularly maneuvers together with China.
37 posted on 03/25/2015 6:08:01 PM PDT by Cossak
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