Nathan B Forrest's Address to the Pole Bearers

Civil War Talk ^ | 2007 | Sears

[WhiskeyX]

“It should be self-evident.”

That is precisely the problem. The words of founding documents and the SCOTUS decision are so self-evident, giving them any acknowledgement shatters the illusions of his fantasy.

[x]

That's why the next act of secession doubtlessly led by Texas and other states of the old Confederacy will find allies in other states such as the Dakotas. Imagine a renewed nation comprised of Alabama, Kansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and other like-minded states.

Why on earth would the Dakotas want to sign on to being the tail end of some new country dominated by Texas or the Southeast? Why subjugate themselves to Atlanta or Birmingham or Dallas or some other far away capital? Wouldn't independence or the formation of some nation of truly "like-minded" Great Plains states be preferable?

And really, by this point Virginia and North Carolina and Florida wouldn't fit in very well to some new Confederacy. Even Texas would be divided. Almost every state has at least a 40% minority that votes for the party that didn't carry the state in the presidential election. It's not like 1860 when Lincoln and the Republicans got no votes in the Deep South states. There's a large enough group in every state that fears what would happen if the more extreme of their neighbors got their own way.

The economic might alone will leave liberal cesspools like California, Massachusetts and New York relegated to even more of a third world status than they already are.

Surely some parts of the country are closer to "third world status." I could see San Francisco or New York City arrogantly cutting themselves off from the rest of the country before they'd sink into the kind of poverty you see in other places.

Some parts of the South and the Heartland, though, could be really hurt by leaving the US economy. Why would the Japanese make cars in Tennessee or Mississippi or Alabama if the domestic market where they could be sold is cut in half and the political situation turns unstable?

[WhiskeyX]

You mean those Southern conservative [Liberal, Progressive, Communist] stalwarts such as The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and:

Huey P. Long, former Louisiana governor and former U.S. Senator[14][15]
Ross Barnett, former governor of Mississippi [16]
Earl Long, former three-term Louisiana governor[17]
Lloyd Bentsen, former Representative and former U.S. Senator from Texas, former Secretary of the Treasury, and Democratic candidate for Vice President in 1988[18]
Jefferson Davis, former Representative and former U.S. Senator from Mississippi, President of Confederacy[19]
James O. Eastland, former U.S. Senator from Mississippi[20]
John R. Edwards, former U.S. Senator from North Carolina, 2004 Democratic Vice Presidential nominee, Democratic presidential candidate in 2004 and 2008.[21][22]
D. Robert Graham, former U.S. Senator from Florida and former Governor of Florida[23][24]
Richard Russell, former Georgia governor and former U.S. Senator from Georgia[25][26]
Lawton Chiles, former U.S. Senator from Florida and former Governor of Florida[27][28]
Estes Kefauver, former Representative, former U.S. Senator from Tennessee and 1956 Democratic Vice Presidential nominee[29]
Lyndon B. Johnson, former U.S. Representative and former Senator from Texas, Vice President of the United States (1961–1963), and President of the United States (1963–1969)[30]
Jimmy Carter, former Governor of Georgia and President of the United States (1977–1981)[31]
Bill Clinton, former Governor of Arkansas and President of the United States (1993–2001)[32][33]
Al Gore, former Representative and former U.S. Senator from Tennessee, Vice President of the United States (1993–2001) and 2000 Democratic nominee for President[34][35]
Paul Patton, former Governor of Kentucky[36]
J. William Fulbright, former Representative from Arkansas, former U.S. Senator from Arkansas and longest-served chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee[37][38]
Sam Rayburn, former Congressman from Texas and longest-served Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives-longest served in the House’s history[39][40]
Sam Nunn, former U.S. Senator from Georgia[41]
Max Cleland, former U.S. Senator from Georgia[42]
James Hovis Hodges, former Governor of South Carolina[43]
Fritz Hollings, former U.S. Senator from South Carolina, former Governor of South Carolina, 1984 U.S. Presidential candidate[44][45]
Steny Hoyer, House Minority Whip, former House Majority Leader, Member of the U.S House of Representatives from Maryland’s 5th District[46]
Olin D. Johnston, former U.S. Senator from South Carolina and former Governor of South Carolina[47][48]
James F. Byrnes, former U.S. Secretary of State, former Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, former Representative, former U.S. Senator, former Governor of South Carolina[49][50]
John Stennis, former U.S. Senator from Mississippi[51]
John McClellan, former Representative and former U.S. Senator from Arkansas[52]
Spessard Holland, former U.S. Senator from Florida and former Governor of Florida[53][54]
Reubin Askew, former Governor of Florida and 1984 U.S. Presidential candidate[55]
Phil Bredesen, former Governor of Tennessee[56]
Kathleen Blanco, former Governor of Louisiana[57]
Roy Barnes, former Governor of Georgia[58]
John Barrow, current U.S. Representative from Georgia[59]
Blanche Lincoln, former Representative and former U.S. Senator from Arkansas[60]
Mark Pryor, current U.S. Senator from Arkansas[61]
David Pryor, former Representative, former U.S. Senator from Arkansas and former Governor of Arkansas[62][63]
Dale Bumpers, former U.S. Senator from Arkansas and former Governor of Arkansas[64][65]
Alben Barkley, former Representative, former U.S. Senator from Kentucky and former U.S. Vice President[66]
Travis Childers, former U.S. representative from Mississippi[67]
J. Bennett Johnston, former U.S. Senator from Louisiana[68]
Mary Landrieu, former U.S. Senator from Louisiana[69]
John Breaux, former Representative and former U.S. Senator from Louisiana[70]
Edwin Edwards, former Representative and former Governor of Louisiana[71][72]
Zell B. Miller, former U.S. Senator from Georgia and former Georgia governor[73][74]
Terry Sanford, former U.S. Senator and former Governor from North Carolina[75][76]
Kay Hagan, current U.S. Senator from North Carolina[77]
Richard Shelby, former Representative, current U.S. Senator from Alabama (Democrat until 1994, now Republican)[78]
J. Strom Thurmond, former U.S. Senator from South Carolina and former Governor of South Carolina (Democrat until 1964, then Republican until death), States’ Right candidate (Dixiecrat) for President in 1948[79][80][81]
Mark R. Warner, Current U.S. Senator from Virginia, former Virginia governor[82][83]
Douglas Wilder, former Virginia Governor, first African-American ever elected Governor in the U.S., tried to go for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1991, but eventually withdrew in 1992[84]
Ralph Yarborough, former U.S. Senator from Texas[85]
Sonny Perdue, former Governor of Georgia (was once a Democrat, now Republican)[86][87]
Robert Byrd, former Representative, former U.S. Senator from West Virginia, presidential candidate, 1976[88][89]
Bill Nelson, former Representative, current U.S. Senator from Florida[90]
Howell Heflin, former senator from Alabama[91]
Mike Beebe, current Governor of Arkansas[92]
George C. Wallace, former governor of Alabama, American Independent Party candidate for President in 1968, ran for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1972 and 1976[93]
Lester Maddox, former governor of Georgia[94]
Joseph Manchin III, former governor of West Virginia, current U.S. Senator from West Virginia, and former Southern Governors’ Association chairman[95][96][97]
Wendell Ford, former Governor and former Senator from Kentucky[98][99]
Martin O’Malley, former Governor of Maryland [100]
A.B. “Happy” Chandler, former Governor and former Senator from Kentucky[101][102]
Steve Beshear, current Governor of Kentucky[103]
Martha Layne Collins, former Governor of Kentucky and chair of the 1984 Democratic National Convention[104]
Ben Chandler, former Attorney General of Kentucky and current Congressman from Kentucky[105]
Lawrence Patton McDonald, Former Representative from Georgia[106]
Tim Kaine, former Governor of Virginia, former Chairman of the DNC, current U.S. Senator from Virginia[107][108][109]
(Wikipedia)

[re_nortex]

I could see San Francisco or New York City arrogantly cutting themselves off from the rest of the country before they'd sink into the kind of poverty you see in other places.

What? Both of those cities are already mired deep into third world cesspool status. In particular, San Francisco's long history of hippies and homosexuals had reduced an entire region to unhinged ultra-liberalism which translates to confiscatory taxes and burdensome regulations, driving productive people to more welcoming places elsewhere in search of liberty, prosperity and the entrepreneurial spirit.

As for New York City, that socialist-run city is best summed up by native Texan Buck Owens' song: I Wouldn't Live In New York City. In a similar vein, Conservative Patriot Hank Williams, Jr. succinctly summarizes things up in his unforgettable standard: Dixie on My Mind.

[re_nortex]

Simply put, Lyin’ Lyndon Johnson was not a true Texan. Although fortunate enough to be native born on our soil, LBJ never the embraced deep-rooted Texas values of Conservatism (pro-God, pro-gun, pro-life, pro-military and anti-sodomy). That also applies to others on your list. On the other hand, a genuine son of the South is Jefferson Beauregard Sessions of Selma, Alabama, a stalwart Christian Conservative.

[x]

Well, no. As long as there are millionaires willing and able to pay to live there, those cities will prosper.

And so far, San Francisco has been able to capitalize on Silicon Valley's success.

Maybe someday economic realities will catch up with them, but economic realities catch up with other places a lot quicker.

If states like California and New York are headed to H_ll, they aren't that far in front of the rest of the country.

[WhiskeyX]

You try to disavow the numerous Liberal/Progressive/Communist Southern Democrats only to warmly embrace the Southern Democrat and Southern RINOs who amount to Fascists. You guys like to fancy yourselves as Conservatives, yet you embrace Fascist totalitarians in the same way as the Russian Fascists clamoring to fight in Donetsk, Ukraine as fake Russian-Ukrainian separatists are determined to conquer territories to erect a totalitarian Novorussiya. It is not a wonder the Russians have adopted a near lookalike flag for Novorussiya to so closely resemble the Stars and Bars Flag of the Confederate States of America in rebellion.

[x]

Simply put, Lyin’ Lyndon Johnson was not a true Texan. Although fortunate enough to be native born on our soil, LBJ never the embraced deep-rooted Texas values of Conservatism (pro-God, pro-gun, pro-life, pro-military and anti-sodomy).

So LBJ was anti-God, anti-gun, anti-life, anti-military, and pro-sodomy?

If you can't admit that 63% of Texans voted for LBJ and 88% voted for FDR, maybe you need your own planet, not just your own country.

[re_nortex]

You guys like to fancy yourselves as Conservatives, yet you embrace Fascist totalitarians...

Let me get this straight so that I fully understand your "concerns": People like Ted Nugent, Ted Cruz and Louie Gohmert -- all Texans, shown below, widely recognized as pro-liberty Patriots -- are "Fascist totalitarians"? Is that correct?

[rockrr]

I can still remember the anguish when Hank Hill found out he was born in NYC...

LOL

[re_nortex]

So LBJ was anti-God, anti-gun, anti-life, anti-military, and pro-sodomy?

Yes, Lyin' Lyndon Johnson was an evil, crude, foul-mouthed DemonRAT of the worst sort. I've heard that a move is underway to remove his name from an expressway (I-635) in the Dallas area. He was also famous for rigging elections in his favor. I know of no one who voted for him in 1964. True Texans repudiate all aspects of LBJ.

[re_nortex]

That was a good episode and I found it quite funny. It also hit close to home since I was conceived in Texas but born in Pennsylvania. Since life begins at conception, I consider myself a native Texan although the birth certificate shows otherwise.

In reality circumstances of birth don't characterize who is a Texan. As pointed out by others in this spirited thread, there were some vile DemonRATs fortunate enough to be born in the Lone Star State such as Dan Rather, Jim Wright, Sam Rayburn, Scott Pelley and others. Birthright alone does not define a Texan. Whether it be the fictional Hank Hill or the very real Ted Cruz and Ted Nugent, neither born here, they are genuine Texans because they embrace the deep-rooted Biblical values that define Conservatism.

[WhiskeyX]

Ted Nugent is a Michigan boy.

[DoodleDawg]

That as the admission of States by Congress under the constitution was an act of legislation, and in the nature of a contract or compact between the States admitted and the others admitting, why should not this contract or compact be regarded as of like character with all other civil contracts liable to be rescinded by mutual agreement of both parties?

And had the Southern states tried it that way then a whole lot of bloodshed could have been avoided. Instead of by mutual agreement the Southern states instead chose to walk out without negotiation, repudiating responsibility for obligations like debt and treaty built up by the nation when they were a part, and grabbing every piece of federal property they could get their hands on.

[re_nortex]

Ted Nugent is a Michigan boy.

Yes that's absolutely true. See my post about what defines a true Texan. It's not mere circumstance of birth as also evidenced by Ted Cruz and, much more humbly, yours truly.

[DoodleDawg]

Ted Nugent is a Michigan boy.

Shhhh. He's on a roll.

[re_nortex]

On a roll? Well, yes I am! :)

One more thing -- albeit fictional -- toward the end of James A. Michener's saga, Texas, he tells the story of a Michigan couple who moved to Houston during the out-migration in the latter half of the 20th Century. Initially apprehensive about the "new world", they eventually came to accept Texas and its values.

Much close to home, in fact across the street is a family hailing from Nashua, NH. Some 15 years ago, the father relocated here because of the strong job market in the tech sector. For years and years, he bucked Texas values and spoke glowingly of his New England home, embracing its liberalism while rejecting our region's Conservatism. Within the past five years, he's undergone a slow metamorphosis. He voted for Ted Cruz in the 2012 senate election and has removed the silly COEXIST bumper sticker from his car. His porch now has a Texas flag proudly flying. And in a few weeks, on Earth Day, I have a notion he'll join me and the next door neighbor when we turn on all the lights, blast the heater/AC and run every engine we can at full throttle as a our protest against Nazism. As the cherry on top, this fellow no longer characterizes Sarah Palin as an "idiot" as he did in 2008.

[wgmalabama]

Those federal bastards you now want free of are the victorious federal bastards of the CW. What you have today is the result of a political war 40 years before the civil war. The hot civil war was the last hope for states right. Yes it was rooted in a lost cause but still what we have now is full slavery of the citizenry. Glad your side won, I don’t have a side since I wasn’t there. That war is over and as you cheer the loss of one side while the victors wrote the history look at the history for 40 years before it and come back.

I’m ready for our split. Those who want liberty on one side and those who want federal control on the other. If your in the NE or west coast your fucked. They own you and we won’t let you down or out. We won’t free you.

Why does no one ever talk about liberty. LIBERTY ITS WHY WE LEFT ENGLAND. We are now controlled by something far worse than a king. We are controlled by the ignorant majority. Fairness or liberty, equality or liberty, democracy or liberty, comfort or liberty, without liberty its just chains of various sizes and shapes. Big government conservatives are just as bad as big government liberals. Liberty is what they despise.

[re_nortex]

I’ll admit to being a fuddy-duddy and normally don’t approve of profanity in posts here on Free Republic. Your eloquent thoughts are a rare (perhaps once a year) exception since there’s really no other way to convey the intense passion behind the points made. So, in spite of the f-word, very well said, FRiend.

[abishai]

Fort Pillow is not so black and white as Forrest's detractors make it out to be.

Since Major Williams Bradford, the commander of the fort, panicked and disorganized the defenders by shouting "save yourselves," many fled to the beach, while no one struck the colors and surrendered the fort. Therefore while the "massacre" was in progress, the fort and its defenders were not in a condition of surrender. This is after Bradford had twice declared he would NOT surrender the fort. A CONFEDERATE soldier had to take down the colors, and when he did so Forrest ordered all firing to stop and help restore order.

Since no formal surrender was declared, many Union soldiers surrendered themselves, yet many who surrendered had taken up arms again, causing great confusion in the battle.

Forrest himself had to personally intervene to stop the firing on the beach, thereby saving many defenders. If his intentions were to massacre the whole defending force for hostile or racist reasons, he would not have done so.

At the congressional investigation, a black soldier named Ellis Falls said that black and white soldiers were being killed in equal number, until Forrest gave the order to cease fire.

I'm not saying that Confederates were not enraged by the thought of black soldiers taunting them from the fort and then got revenge. There is just no proof that orders to do so were from Forrest himself.