Posted on 01/23/2015 8:05:13 AM PST by wagglebee
Please explain EXACTLY what you mean about Terri Schiavo.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, oftentimes someone is a retread and not a lurker.
Very true. Point well taken!
Thanks for posting it.
Terri Schiavo was diagnosed by multiple physicians, including independent court-appointed physicians, as being in a persistent vegetative state.
Martin Pistorious was not.
EXACTLY.
Gosh. Thank you!
If they did, then they weren't in a persistent (or permanent) vegetative state. Perhaps the person was in a minimally conscious state or a coma.
***Terri Schiavo was diagnosed by multiple physicians, including independent court-appointed physicians, as being in a persistent vegetative state.***
The independent court appointed physician was not independent. It’s been a while since I’ve studied the case, but there was a relationship between that doctor and either the judge or Michael’s lawyer. I think it was Michael’s lawyer who recommended him. As well, he was one who was used in cases where they wanted to conclude that patients were PVS.
Terri was also diagnosed by several other doctors that she was no longer in a PVS, that there was a new diagnosis that fit her, that she had progressed to a Minimally Conscious state. There was a new technology that had been developed only recently to the national awareness of her case. The judge refused to allow the testimony of these doctors to be entered into evidence.
The thing that doomed Terri’s fate was an error in the very beginning, when her family had hired an inexperienced lawyer. This was back in the late 90s if I recall correctly. It was conceded as “fact” by that lawyer, that Terri was in a PVS. Because her family didn’t contest that in the beginning, Terri was doomed by the system. They worked hard to overturn that, but it was a technical lawyerly error.
So, a JUDGE gets to decide a person's medical diagnosis?
What about the dozens of medical professionals who signed affidavits that she WAS NOT?
Dr. Jay Carpenter
Dr. Fred Webber
Dr. Jacob Green
Dr. Alexander T. Gimon
Dr. Richard Neubauer
Dr. William Scott Russell
Dr. Joseph L. Brunner
Dr. David L. Coulter
Dr. David Hopper
Dr. Beatrice Engstrand
Dr. Alyse Eytan
Dr. Harry Sawyer Goldsmith
Dr. William M. Hammesfahr
Dr. Paul Harch
Dr. Carolyn Heron
Dr. Lawrence Huntoon
Pamela Hyink , SLP
Dr. Jill Joyce
Dr. James P. Kelly
Dr. Philip R. Kennedy
Dr. Kyle Lakas
Dr. Peter J. Luca
Dr. William Maxfield
Dr. Peter J. Morin
Myra Stinson, CCC-SLP
Dr. James Avery
Dr. Ricardo Senno
Dr. J. Michael Uszler
Dr. Richard Weidman
Dr. Jon David Young
Dr. Thomas Mark Zabiega
Dr. Ralph Ankenman
Carla Sauer Iyer, RN
C. Johnson, CNA
Heidi Law, CNA
Sara Green-Mele. MS. CCC,SLP
Dr. Laurie Barclay
Dr. Rodney Dunaway
Dr. George Isajiw
Dr. Leonard P. Rybak
Dr. William Cheshire
What about the people who actually LOVED Terri and knew that she was aware of things?
I realize that you are VERY NEW to FR (if this is actually your first time here), but you should know that this is a pro-life forum.
Minimally conscious was only a term being added to the medical lexicon around the time of the later court cases with Terri.
Your point that the people were misdiagnosed is a real thing. It happens all the time. Years before the MC designation, PVS was the only one that was used after about a month in a VS. Studies from the old days showed that the diagnosis was wrong at least 40% of the time. That’s too much. I think that’s when the experts started looking at other ways of measuring brain activity. There’s still so much to learn.
Thanks for that list, wagglebee. There were so many and it’s a shame that Greer wouldn’t allow any of their testimony or evidence in.
I was making one simple point. The author was comparing Martin Pistorious' condition to that of Terri's Schiavo's. I felt it was an unfair comparison, and I said why.
That's it. Settle down.
I was making one simple point. The author was comparing Martin Pistorious' condition to that of Terri's Schiavo's. I felt it was an unfair comparison, and I said why.
That's it. Settle down. Oh, save me some time and copy this to you lengthy list of cohorts -- it runs off my page.
By the way, you have a strange way of welcoming people to FR. More like intimidation.
I’m not trying to turn this into a Terri thread. It’s about the dangers of diagnosing someone in a VS at all.
You said why you thought it was an unfair comparison to Terri. I’m saying why it’s a good comparison.
Settle down? Have I said anything in anger or excitedly to you? I was giving you info that maybe you weren’t aware of. You brought it up, and in my opinion, you are mistaken.
Hey dumbass, the AUTHOR of the piece brought up Terri's case which makes sense when one realizes that he was one of the main lawyers trying to save her life.
I was making one simple point. The author was comparing Martin Pistorious' condition to that of Terri's Schiavo's. I felt it was an unfair comparison, and I said why.
Let't make it really simple:
Was dehydrating and starving Terri the right and/or legal thing to do?
YES or NO
That's it. Settle down.
You're awfully insolent for a newb.
I will continue to ping anyone I want.
By the way, you have a strange way of welcoming people to FR.
I'm very welcoming (okay, scratch that, I'm reasonably civil) to people I don't think are trolls.
More like intimidation.
Why don't you complain to Jim Robinson that wagglebee is being mean to you on a pro-life thread...
Or, go bitch about it in an anti-FReeper cesspool if that's more your style.
“After a progressive disease rendered him unable to move or speak, doctors determined that the boy was in a persistent vegetative state and advised that his parents let him die. From NPR:”
Actually, from the NPR article:
“The hospital told them to take him home and keep him comfortable ...”
Fine. That's the essence of debate.
I don't happen to agree with you, that's all. Doesn't mean I don't like you.
I known many liberals who wander through life in an insistent vegetative state.
Should they be starved?
Or just zotted?
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