OK, so it sounds like we’re going to have the same argument that we have every time that a pro-life legislator tries to pass the most anti-abortion law that possibly could be upheld by the courts. So let’s skip ahead to where we will end up a few posts from now, when you argue that anything short of an immediate, absolute ban on abortion from the moment of conception must be voted down, and claim that history has proven you right, and I respond to your arguments. I thus repost your arguments against a similar law (banning abortions after the 20th week, that time in Arkansas, where the pro-abortion Democrat governor vetoed it) and my reaction to them from March 1, 2013:
“A) It’s not morally right to pass laws that say you can kill some innocent persons.”
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But the law right now allows the murder of *any and all* innocent persons before their deaths. How many additional babies are you willing to sacrifice in the name of waiting for a perfect law, which certainly won’t come without winning some battles along the way? I’m with Father Frank Pavone on this one.
“B) It’s not constitutional.”
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I agree with you. And if we had an enlightened majority in the Supreme Court and the Arkansas law was struck down because it violates the inalienable right to life of innocent human beings, then we would get exactly what we want, thanks to that law. Unfortunately, if the law was struck down, it would be for not permitting abortion in enough circumstances. The law that you and I would pass would be struck down immediately as unconstitutional, and would set back the pro-life cause for years.
“C) We have forty years of experience that tells us it doesn’t work, because you’re giving up the principles that argue against the practice of human abortion every time you pass one of these bills.”
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I would posit that we have much more than 40 years experience that tells us that it is counterproductive to make the perfect the enemy of the good. We need to tear down Roe v. Wade brick by brick, and then, when states finally are able to ban abortion, fight for the right to life in all 50 states (passing the most pro-life law possible in each state—if you can’t ban abortion in New Jersey without an exception for rape or incest, then do that, and try for a full ban later). Or perhaps get Congress to use Section 5 of the 14th Amendment to ban abortion nationwide as a violation of a state abridging the right to life without due process of law; and then we can then try to elect large enough pro-life majorities so that Congress can propose a constitutional amendment banning abortion, and then fight for ratification by 3/4 of the states. But we won’t win the war if we insist on losing every battle.
“Wilberforce went through the same thing in the effort to end slavery in the British Empire. For decades he and his cohort in Parliament tried the compromise, incremental approach, until finally they figured out that it wasn’t right, and that it DID NOT WORK. So, they changed to a no-compromise equal protection approach, which very quickly prevailed.”
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Actually, you are absolutely wrong about this. Wilberforce did not insist that the only acceptable outcome of legislation was banning slavery throughout the British Empire, and he did not oppose laws that fell short of that. He fought for emancipation for 26 years, and in 1807 finally convinced Parliament to ban the slave trade. He did not oppose the Slave Trade Act of 1807 because it didn’t ban slavery; he accepted it as a necessary first step towards emancipation.
Wilberforce then fought until his death for emancipation, and died a few days after hearing confirmation that slavery would finally be banned in the British Empire. And even then, the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 did not prohibit slavery on certain parts of the British Empire (such as what are now India and Sri Lanka, and the island of St. Helena); that came 10 years later, with a law that passed thanks to the prior passage of the imperfect emancipation act of 1833.
So the lesson we should learn from Wilberforce’s fight to end slavery is not to compromise on your principles, but accept partial victories instead of total defeats.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2992649/posts?page=26#26
I see than nearly two years later, you are still being a useful idiot for the abortionists. You do realize that NO ONE who wants to keep abortion legal supports a post-20-week ban? Once again, you are on the same side as NARAL, Planned Parenthood and Barbara Boxer, in opposition to National Right to Life Committee, Priests for Life and just about every other pro-life group. And the saddest part is that you think that you are being the modern incarnation of William Wilberforce, when your actions are diametrically opposed to his.
You’re fooling yourself when you cede the nature of the inalienable right to life, and when you surrender the whole idea of equal protection under the law. You think you’re getting a “partial victory,” but actually you are no more doing that than if an army ceded all of its equipment, arms, and ammunition to the enemy in exchange for a piece of land in that enemy’s military prison.
You fail to refute my contention that these bills are immoral, responding instead with a Utilitarian claim based on facts that are not in evidence.
You admit that these bills are unconstitutional, which among conservatives should end the argument. But no, you then respond with a rant that proves nothing except that you are in thrall to the judicial supremacist lie, the lie that is doing more to destroy this republic than just about anything else I can think of.
You accuse me of being a useful idiot for the abortionists, when the exact opposite is true. They laugh at the NRTL faux “strategy,” knowing that they will continue to do what they have always done, which is crush it like a bug.
On the other hand, they fear a real debate over the supreme right of man and of equality before the law.
The whole political and legal world would tremble and move if the “conservatives” in this country would finally decide to make the real case against this genocide.