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States, The Natural Second Party.
Vanity

Posted on 01/06/2015 11:16:23 AM PST by Jacquerie

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To: demshateGod; arthurus

What would y’all suggest instead?


61 posted on 01/06/2015 9:03:13 PM PST by upchuck (Entrenched incumbency is the disease. Fresh blood is the cure.)
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To: x

Most State legislatures are part time gigs. Most legislators are small business owners who know very well the burdens imposed through Washington mandates. They are not timid, retiring people. So yes, by and large I believe that most would welcome the opportunity to freely govern their states.


62 posted on 01/07/2015 1:16:59 AM PST by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: Deathtomarxists
I won't bother to pick your post apart.

I suggest you educate yourself.

This book is a good place to start:


63 posted on 01/07/2015 1:24:24 AM PST by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: Jacquerie
State nullification of laws that violate their constitution. Ignore the fedgov when they try to enforce their garbage. Fight if necessary.
64 posted on 01/07/2015 5:58:30 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: arthurus
"This Washington government will not permit such a Convention"

and your solution is?

65 posted on 01/07/2015 7:07:46 AM PST by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: demshateGod
"Nothing will come of the COS movement."

So you favor doing nothing?

66 posted on 01/07/2015 7:10:16 AM PST by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Da Bilge Troll

All these smart people who are spinning their wheels on a doomed process should stop, use their smarts to assess the problem, and come up with a solution that will really stop the tyranny. Put all their effort into nullification, secession, etc. Read “Give me Liberty or Give me Death” as if it’s as relevant for us now as it was for Patrick Henry then.


67 posted on 01/07/2015 7:16:19 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: demshateGod
"Fine, repeal the 17th, but watch the repeal be nullified by DC or be prepared to fight a Cold or Hot Civil War."

All peaceful options must be exhausted. Or do you propose violence before we even try?

68 posted on 01/07/2015 7:17:35 AM PST by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Da Bilge Troll

I don’t really know the answer to that. I do think that it should be made explicit that we know this process won’t really work.


69 posted on 01/07/2015 7:20:04 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: arthurus
"A Convention will lead to armed conflict"

What is your solution?

70 posted on 01/07/2015 7:24:00 AM PST by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: demshateGod
"people who are spinning their wheels on a doomed process should stop"

Why? Your options will still be just as available after a COS fails as they are now. Would the people support another civil war without exhausting all peaceful options first?

71 posted on 01/07/2015 7:29:28 AM PST by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: demshateGod
"I do think that it should be made explicit that we know this process won’t really work."

But we don't know that, do we?

72 posted on 01/07/2015 7:30:55 AM PST by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Da Bilge Troll

Okay, well that should be explained.


73 posted on 01/07/2015 7:31:21 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Da Bilge Troll

Buy good military type firearms, lots of ammunition, and cache them.


74 posted on 01/07/2015 8:34:33 AM PST by arthurus
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To: central_va
Your comment makes no sense to me.

That figures.

Israel has to have an army and all the apparatus of a national government because its neighbors have armies which could attack.

Virginia doesn't need its own army because Maryland, West Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee don't have their own armies.

Maybe the state's resources are better applied to other, peaceful and commercial, activities. Or do you really think Virginia's or Maryland's interests are best served by making nuclear weapons and aiming them across the Potomac at each other.

Is it really so hard to understand?

75 posted on 01/07/2015 1:22:26 PM PST by x
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To: Jacquerie
Most State legislatures are part time gigs. Most legislators are small business owners who know very well the burdens imposed through Washington mandates. They are not timid, retiring people.

Compared to you and me, maybe, but politicians who really want power gravitate to Washington.

Those who stay home may really want to run their own business (as you say) and not take on all the governmental responsibilities that Washington DC has now. There's a process of self-selection: the most ambitious politicians leave the state legislatures for the US Congress and those who remain in the state legislatures are less ambitious (or power-hungry) than their colleagues who've moved onto the national scene.

You know how much things have changed in our political system in over 200 years. One thing hasn't changed, though. Those state legislators then who sent Clay or Webster to Washington were sending on their most ambitious man to tackle the big questions. They weren't trying to resolve all questions back in the state legislatures.

76 posted on 01/07/2015 1:30:33 PM PST by x
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To: x

The reasons for including states in the government they created haven’t changed since 1787.


77 posted on 01/07/2015 1:38:11 PM PST by Jacquerie (Article V. If not now, when?)
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To: x

What your saying is each state is MORE than capable of being sovereign in light of the nonexistent military threat. Nice to see you agreeing with me.


78 posted on 01/07/2015 3:16:06 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
Make each state sovereign and military threats won't be non-existent much longer.

Be careful what you wish for: assuming that you actually could get the states to take over functions that the federal government does now you might be surprised at how much energy and ferocity that the states will bring to fulfilling those functions.

In other words, unchain the states and the ones that respond to your challenge may be the new jailers you'll complain about.

It's also funny that you took Virginia as your original example.

Good luck convincing your fellow citizens to put their largest employer out of business.

79 posted on 01/07/2015 3:47:31 PM PST by x
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To: x

You’ll never get that tongue off of the federal boot. I guess shoe leather is tasty to you. Sorry SOB.


80 posted on 01/07/2015 3:49:48 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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