Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: ansel12
WW II army actually was not "fine." Most comparisons of the GIs with other militaries, esp. the Germans, found that US infantry were inferior. One study found that engineers and elite US teams were the equivalent of SS units, but normal Wehrmacht vs normal US infantry, the Germans had the advantage.

As I said, WW II was an exception, as was the Civil War. Where US volunteers excelled was in the Mexican War, Sp. American War (despite inferior weapons), even the War of 1812 after a year's worth of training.

73 posted on 12/16/2014 1:30:26 PM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies ]


To: LS

Where are you getting your history?
1. After some initial setbacks (Kasserine, Attu ) the army kicked German and Japanese butt and took names. Sicily? Normandy? New Guinea? The repulse of the Bulge? Luzon? Our infantry wasn’t second to anybody. The Germans and Japanese lost, right?
2. We did fine in the Mexican War and the Spanish-American War - but other than Andrew Jackson at New Orleans, we lost almost every battle during the 1812 war. Ever heard of Bladensburg? The only thing that saved us during that 1812 war were our privateers wrecking British commercial insurance rates.
Really sick of Germanophiles on our Freerepublic: the Nazis were lousy - the only thing they excelled at was killing helpless prisoners.


74 posted on 12/16/2014 2:44:36 PM PST by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

To: LS

2350 Corps Info. Message: ‘The following was announced over radio

Berlin:

“Our troops are again on the march. We shall present the Fuhrer with Antwerp by Christmas.”

(William L. Howard)

At 0530 XLVII Corps began a 30 minute preparation which was not as effective as desired in that it stopped while the infantry was still well short of the American positions. Because his wire was shot out by the German preparation, Colonel Harvey Fuller, commander of the 110th, could not reach either of his battalions; Field Artillery radios, however, continued to function. However, first word of the German attack reached Colonel Fuller’s headquarters at 0615. He was able to get a warning message to division headquarters by about 0900.

As the morning passed German strength west of the Our River increased. Despite this, in many places, soldiers of the 110th Infantry held their positions in the towns and villages. Several counter attacks were executed by elements of the 110th Infantry and the attached 707th Tank Battalion. The skillful defence, both position and mobile, slowed the German attack. In no place did it reach the objectives set for the first day.

The 28th Infantry Division had suffered 6,184 casualties in the Hurtgen Forest during the period 2-15 November. If we consider that the rifle companies of the division had taken 90% of those casualties then on average each had taken more than 200 casualties or more than 100% of their strength.

The soldiers who had become casualties had been replaced by soldiers delivered by the much maligned United States Army replacement system. These replacements were soldiers good enough to seriously delay the German XLVII Panzer Corps and to keep it from reaching its first day objectives. These American soldiers were the products of a replacement system that has been unfavorably compared to the German system. It appears that the system performed effectively and delivered courageous soldiers to units where they performed their duty skillfully as they had been trained to do in the United States. Generalmajor Heinz Kokott, commander of the 26th VG Division, described the situation at the end of 16 December. In no Army are the actions described by General Kokott performed by unskilled soldiers.

“At the end of the first day of the attack, the objectives contemplated by the Army and aimed for by the troops were reached nowhere. East of the Clerf River, the slopes of which should actually have been reached by the initial tank spearheads, American elements still put up a desperate battle, less for space but for time.! The lines of the 28th US Division had been pierced, their positions and strong points had been routed, the enemy had suffered heavy and bloody losses and had to give up tanks, equipment, weapons and prisoners - but what had not been expected to such an extent was the fact that the remnants of the beaten units did not give up the battle. They stayed put and continued to block the road. Fighting a delaying battle - supported by armored and other motor vehicles. Individual groups time and again confronted the assault detachments of the attacking units at dominating heights, at defiles, on both sides of gullies and on forest paths; they let the attacking parties run into their fire, engaged them in a fire duel, made evading movements with great skill and speed and then conducted unexpected counterthrusts into flanks and rear. The characteristic of the terrain presented many opportunities for a mobile, skilled and flexible opponent.

“This day had shown that, after the forward enemy positions had been smashed and a breakthrough had been made into the depth of the defence zone, a forward march - even by the infantry - would be out of the question. The infantry actually would have to “fight” its way forward. Time and again the attacker was faced with the alternative: Either to crack down the enemy by a tedious system of fire duels or else to by-pass him in wide arcs in steep, difficult and muddy terrain. Both methods would absorb much time, the former more blood, the latter incredible physical hardships.

“Decisive for the first day of fighting - and in some sense also of influence for the further developments - was the stubborn defence of Hosingen which blocked the most important road and which made difficult and rendered impossible all concentrated efforts for supply.”

The German Army had underestimated its opponent. (Jay Stone)

(Contributions also from Will O’Neil)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3237697/posts


75 posted on 12/16/2014 3:01:28 PM PST by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

To: LS

What was your alternative to catching up with the Wehrmacht and the German war machine, somehow fantasize about millions of volunteers in the 1930s American Army?

Have 60% of our 1935 youths in the Hitler Youth for military preparation, and then a mandatory 6 months drafted into the government labor service which further honed their military skills. and then drafted into the Wehrmacht, where by age 19 or 20 years of age they already had 10 years of military preparation?

Germany drafted from 1935 to 1945.

Would you have had America duplicate the German experience with conscription and the draft, to the tune of millions, to avoid the learning curve that our GIs faced?


85 posted on 12/16/2014 8:02:37 PM PST by ansel12
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson