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To: stremba
You claim that there’s no evidence that the universe is deterministic. Why would that matter

Because you said: "why could an omnipotent and omniscient being get everything started (ie Big Bang), set up initial condition (laws of science), and let it all work out", as if the universe was a big pile of differential equations and all one needs to do is put in some initial conditions and it will all "work out".

I don’t understand why you bring God’s free will into it

God has free will--he can choose to do works of divine power or miracles, like parting the Red Sea, if He wants to.

I’m not Catholic, so Vatican I’s condemnation means nothing to me.

Yes, but you are asking others, so others are telling you why.

94 posted on 10/29/2014 8:35:56 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

So then, God cannot create the universe, get it started and have it inevitably produce the result He wants? You stated earlier that this is not what you are claiming, but your last response certainly seems to imply that God could not have done so.

As for God’s free will, I certainly don’t deny that God can miraculously intervene whenever He wishes. That’s irrelevant to the point. The point is whether or not He actually did so, especially regarding the physical universe. My contention was simply that God could have set things up so that they ended up the way He wanted them to. Since that’s the case, there would have been no need for Him to tinker with His creation. That would be true until humans with their free will developed. Once that occurs, tinkering might well be necessary because we haven’t behaved in the way God wants us to.

As to Vatican I, again I find it irrelevant both because Vatican I is a human construct, and therefore prone to error, and because it’s condemning something that I am not claiming anyway.


97 posted on 10/29/2014 8:49:53 AM PDT by stremba
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