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To: Mariner

I think that many posters here way underestimate the Russian mil and vastly overinflated NATO/US mils relative capabilities.

Statistics are no guide to anything, except more statistics.

The US has only tried its weapons on third rate mils using way out of date Russian equipment, manned by poorly trained soldiers whose only aim is to collect a salary. Knowledge of modern US/European relative weapon effectiveness against modern Russian weapons is only theoretical, not demonstrable.

One only needs to listen to US and Russian mil exercises to see the difference between the two. For instance, underwater river crossings by armored vehicles: there are obvious logs coming down a river (which will damage the tank or knock off the air tube killing the crew) - the US tanker waits to cross, the Russian tanker goes anyway. The US advance is halted, the Russian advance continues.

Or: Russian mil units always communicate positions via code, US units, despite training to the contrary, often gives positions in the clear. No one knows where the Russian crew is, the position of the US crew is known, down to the apple tree it is hiding behind.

Calling up a Russian unit in Russian - (pretending to be another Russian unit) is met with angry demands for ID, doing the same thing in reverse to a US unit is met with “hey what’s up, etc”. The penalty for a Russian unit not using code is immediate execution of the whole unit, for the US unit is maybe an Article 15 at some future date (just the guy who made the call).

US helicopter survival time in combat with Russian forces was estimated to be 15 seconds ...

It all may well come down to who achieves air superiority first and maintains it, as well as who has the shortest, most survivable, and efficient supply routes.

The devil is in the details, not the statistics. The Russian Bear is not gone, just hibernating.


104 posted on 09/20/2014 5:20:03 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: PIF
"It all may well come down to who achieves air superiority first and maintains it, as well as who has the shortest, most survivable, and efficient supply routes."

That statement is a treatise on modern warfare.

We would control the air...after SUBSTANTIAL losses.

The Russians would have the shorter supply lines.

105 posted on 09/20/2014 9:27:41 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: PIF
....”I think that many posters here way underestimate the Russian military and vastly overinflated NATO/US mils relative capabilities.”......

Even Nato’s Col. Breedlove would agree with that and did so after Crimea’s Referendum. He and other Commanders said they were astonished at how effective Russia's capabilities were..... However, Putin also showed his hand then...and now they know.

111 posted on 09/20/2014 11:17:24 PM PDT by caww
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To: PIF

“For instance, underwater river crossings by armored vehicles”

WTF ? Everyone train that.


112 posted on 09/21/2014 5:07:13 AM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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