[cuban leaf]

The laws define what is excessive. It is why Rice was arrested and is on probation.

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Courts determine what is excessive. That is why first degree murder is considered excessive, but killing in self defense is not.

[kabar]

I have sat as a juror on a murder case. I understand the issue of self-defense. But we are discussing the Rice case, the subject of this thread. The courts have made a decision in the Rice case. He is guilt as charged. He was given a diversion because of no previous criminal history.

[Sherman Logan]

The level of violence is not what determines the difference between murder and self-defense.