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To: Dead Corpse

Gotta love when the BATFE get egg on their face. Freedom marches on!


41 posted on 09/13/2014 3:05:19 PM PDT by MeatshieldActual
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To: MeatshieldActual

We can certainly hope so. Here’s a synopsis one of the posters on AFRCOM put together...

Sorry I’ve been out of the loop for about 18 hours.

Update to the OP:

ETA: 9/11/14

The audio of the ATF call on page 18 (thanks Jaqufrost):

Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Audio is up. I’m not going to say I handled this phone call the best, but here it is.
http://youtu.be/4s9GKoxnGcM

ETA: 9/12/14

FAQ - - for the tl;dr crowd
(Started by Undefined, edited by Orpheus762x51)

What’s happening?

1. ATF ruled that a trust is not a person as defined by 18 U.S. Code § 921(a) and the Gun Control Act (GCA).
2. Since ATF holds that an unincorporated trust is not a “person” under the GCA, the prohibition on the transfer or possession of machineguns as defined by 18 U.S. Code § 921(a)(1) and 18 U.S. Code § 922(o) cannot apply to unincorporated trusts.
3. Numerous (See Footnote #1) trustees submitted Form 1 applications to build new machine guns.
4. ATF approved the applications and sent out stamps (See Footnote #2).
5. On or around 9/10/14, ATF began calling trustees that received stamps demanding that they be returned, or in the case of eForms, updating their online status from Approved to Disapproved. Those that were called were told they had to return the stamp. (See Footnote #3 for audio of one such call)
6. Attorneys are working on it now...

Footnotes:
1. Current estimates put the number of trusts that applied somewhere in the low hundreds. Unfortunately, there is no 100% accurate count that is publicly available.
2. Some stamps were received as early as the first week of August 2014. Others have not been received yet.
3. Jaqufrost’s call from the ATF:

Does this mean if I have a trust I can get Form 1s approved to build machine guns?

No. BATFE is no longer sending out approvals. Your application will be rejected.

Should I submit a Form 1 through a trust right now?

Yes. As of right now, the ATF is aware of what is going on with these Form 1s. Your submission will likely be rejected, however it would add you to a class of trustees who have standing against the ATF in the event of future legal action. Even though your Form 1 application will likely be denied, it would be helpful to submit a Form 1.

What should I do if I was one of the trustees that submitted a Form 1 and received approval?

Presto97sl summed it up pretty well (see below). I would add that you should contact NoloContendere via IM and at nolocontendere@ar15.com as he is a rally point right now for coordinating and tracking efforts on this issue.
Here is what Nolo wants, in this particular order:
1) if you received an approval and subsequent to that approval manufactured And then had a disapproval.
2) if you received an approval and then were denied.
3) if you filed a form 1 and were denied.

Originally Posted By Presto97sl:
Let me begin with I am an attorney.

Anyone who had one of these approved and then denied needs to do the following
1. Cut off any contact with the ATF directly regarding this issue until you have sought legal counsel.
2. Keep a copy of any information they mail to you, I would photo copy and hang onto everything.
3. Contact an attorney who specializes in this area of law.
4. DO NOT cash the check they are going to send you refunding your paid tax ( you may waive your rights by doing so).

What can the rest of us do to help?

1. Keep the thread bumped.
2. Submit a Form 1 to manufacture a machine gun through a trust.
3. Stand by.

Where can I send donations?

Nowhere, yet! There will be a time and place for that, but no one wants to start collecting money until we know how and where it will be spent. Plaintiffs are discussing options with attorneys right now. Attorneys are working on a plan right now. As soon as funding is needed, it will be requested (after getting Strykers approval). Until then, be patient.

So the OP has an approved Form 1 and a machine gun?

No. Orpheus762x51 started this thread and is keeping Arfcom updated on the situation. Jaqufrost did receive an approval on his Form 1, then the ATF subsequently demanded that it be returned. Undefined, NoloContendere, I_am_Dan, and a few others in this thread are just plain awesome.

How do I Submit a Form 1?

For paper Forms: Complete Guide of how to complete a Form 1

For eForms: Visual guide: How to fill out a Form 1 using EFORMS

ETA: 9/13/14

The die has been cast on Page 36.

Originally Posted By FlyingGorilla:

I’ve been informed that one of my gunsmith’s customers (Mr Ground Zero) received his stamp and converted an AR in early August.

His lawyer has opined that the ATF is VERY CAREFULLY choosing their words as they contact those people that they have issued stamps to. His take is that they are trying to intimidate people into surrendering their stamps and any MGs that have been manufactured since those stamps were received. No words stating that the stamp holders MUST surrender were used in the audio recording posted here, it has merely been implied.

No certified letters have been received by Mr Ground Zero as is required by law when ATF ORDERS an FFL to surrender stamps or firearms. No other such official communications have taken place, either. Simply a phone call, which does not constitute an official communication. It sounds just like the telephone games IRS plays with people trying to entrap them into admitting to tax fraud.

This one individual has already contacted his congressman and is working to provide the information requested by the congressman’s office to verify this complaint, which may be the prelude to congressional action on ATF making a policy change that required congressional action to be legal.

ATF is scurrying around trying to cover this mess up like a cat with diarrhea, and they are not doing a very good job of things as everything they’ve done has uncovered more shit they don’t want exposed.

So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
One of the first machine guns produced in civilian hands in nearly thirty years...
With ATF approval.

Yes. You heard right.

A machine gun.

Manufactured after 1986.

With ATF Form 1 approval.

Is in the WILD!!!

Also, this issue has been making it’s way around the internet in the form of several articles in just a couple days:

The Firearm Blog: ATF Approves Post-86 Machine Gun Form 1

The Firearm Blog: BATFE Phone Call Asking For Return of Approved Trust Form 1

The Truth About Guns: ATF Just Approved the First New Civilian Machine Gun in 28 Years. By Accident.

NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog: ATF Approves some Form 1 to Make Machine Guns by a Gun Trust and then Rescinds the Approval

Prince Law Offices, P. C. : Did ATF Approve Your Making of a New Machinegun and Then Rescind It? Contact Us To Discuss


42 posted on 09/13/2014 3:16:10 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (A Psalm in napalm...)
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