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Putin 'urges talks on statehood for east Ukraine' (Putin Toughens Position)
BBC News ^ | 08/31/2014 | BBC News

Posted on 08/31/2014 4:31:13 AM PDT by goldstategop

President Putin has called for talks to discuss "statehood" for eastern Ukraine, Russian media report.

He said the issue needed to be discussed to ensure the interests of local people "are definitely upheld".

His comments came after the EU gave Russian a one-week ultimatum to reverse course in Ukraine or face sanctions.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: bbcnews; europeanunion; nato; novorossiya; presidentputin; russia; statehood; sudetenland; terrorism; ukraine
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To: lormand

As opposed to jumping when Obama says jump.


141 posted on 08/31/2014 4:50:36 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: palmer
We can have economic strength and isolationism.

Which is another way of saying we can have economic strength without economic liberty.

142 posted on 08/31/2014 4:50:44 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Did Vietnam help or hurt the American economy?


143 posted on 08/31/2014 4:54:26 PM PDT by palmer (This comment is not approved or cleared by FDA)
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To: palmer
You were doing pretty well with the KGB's destruction of America. No doubt there was more to it than I have read about.

I recommend "Masters of Deceit" by J. Edgar Hoover, "I led 3 Lives: Citizen, Communist, Counterspy" by Herbert Philbrick, New Lies for Old and Perestroika Deception by Anatoliy Golitsyn (two different books), J.R. Nyquist's Origins of the Fourth World War, Red Cocaine by Joseph Douglas, We Will Bury You by Jan Sejna, Soviet Strategy for Nuclear War by Joseph Douglass again, Red Horizons by Ion Pacepa, and, of course, anything by Trevour Loudon.

There was a reason why Anti-Communists acted like there might be a communist behind every bush. Because, if you actually looked, you'd actually find a Russkie communist there.

However you are falsely equating interventionism and republican free market capitalism (the opposite of liberal socialism).

You are falsely imposing upon me your definition of the word "interventionism." Fighting the Russians doesn't mean nation building in Afghanistan. Fighting the Russians doesn't mean launching the Nukes tomorrow either, to reanswer your nuclear war thing from earlier. Fighting the Russians means preparing for war, and using smart strategy to undermine Russian and Chinese objectives in the world, as well as undermining their country from within. And, of course, being able to fight the Russians in a world war proper if they finally decide to launch it.

This is not a war we want. It is a war that the enemy intends to give us, whether we like it or not. Dismissing the threat of Russian aggression is simply stupidity. There is no reason for it.

If the politicians had let the military planners run Vietnam do you think we would have won?

Yes, of course. And we were even winning in the end, killing them many times over, compared to what they did to us, which was greatly exaggerated by the media due to Communist meddling.

“As our tanks were rolling into the presidential palace [in South Vietnam], if America had conducted just one more air strike we would have thrown in the towel,” Giap admitted. “And thank god they didn’t,” Giap added, “because, let me tell you, that tank was running on fumes.” Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/10/vietnam-war-winning/#ixzz3C17lnCNI

144 posted on 08/31/2014 4:55:11 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Tailgunner Joe
Yes, of course. And we were even winning in the end, killing them many times over, compared to what they did to us, which was greatly exaggerated by the media due to Communist meddling.

As I suggested to rudeboy, we destroyed our economy. So all we needed to do to win in Vietnam is take out a few more villages? Or perhaps install a better dictator? Your vision of the world is unremarkably narrow. You are a military utopian who does not understand the complexities and risks of war. Furthermore you do not understand that choosing your wars carefully to result in economic benefit is the best course when forced into war. Thus with the "plan" described by TailgunnerJoe, we will "destroy" Putin while the Chinese destroy us. Do you agree with Tailgunner Joe?

145 posted on 08/31/2014 5:11:50 PM PDT by palmer (This comment is not approved or cleared by FDA)
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To: free_life
"Reagan detested your kind."

If you knew him so well, why didn't you say "Stop" when he personally signed that letter of Commendation and Appreciation that's in my service record?

Or could it be you don't have a clue what Reagan thought?

146 posted on 08/31/2014 5:13:12 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"Ukraine and Georgia both sent troops to help us fight Russia's terrorist ally Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Putin has punished them for wanting to be friends with the USA because Putin despises the USA and everything we represent. He still cannot accept the EVIL EMPIRE’s defeat in the Cold War. Like Hitler who could not accept Germany's defeat in the Great War, Putin demands VENGEANCE! He wants to undo history and Ronald Reagan's great achievement. Like Hitler he will arrogantly lead his nation to complete and total RUIN. "

I agree with all of that.

147 posted on 08/31/2014 5:14:25 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: palmer
As I suggested to rudeboy, we destroyed our economy.

Suggested? Why not proved?

So all we needed to do to win in Vietnam is take out a few more villages?

Was the United States wiping out villages filled with civilians for no military purpose?

Or perhaps install a better dictator?

Who says they would be replaced by a dictator? And what's wrong with an anti-Communist dictator? I much prefer them over Pro-Communist dictators, in the end.

If the United States was half as Machiavellian as the Russkies, the world would indeed be a better place.

148 posted on 08/31/2014 5:16:08 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Mariner

Reagan didn’t suck-up to the Russians, and he didn’t have to use his military service as a shield to criticism.


149 posted on 08/31/2014 5:22:01 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: palmer
President Poroshenko is an Orthodox Christian.

All of the Godless Communists in Ukraine are on Russia's side.

150 posted on 08/31/2014 5:22:28 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: palmer
Did Vietnam help or hurt the American economy?

I'm not a Keynesian, if you're asking. I was responding to your use of the word "isolationism," which unfortunately is a code word for, "more government."

151 posted on 08/31/2014 5:25:54 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Who is sucking up to the Russians?

Did you even read anything I posted...or did you just notice somebody calling me a collaborator and decide to jump in?

152 posted on 08/31/2014 5:42:04 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

No, I remember a post from a few days back where you called the E. Ukrainians “usually sane” (or something), and mocked the W. Ukrainians for wanting “freedom.”


153 posted on 08/31/2014 5:45:40 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
If the United States was half as Machiavellian as the Russkies, the world would indeed be a better place.

Perhaps. But we were talking about war and we were half as Machiavellian as the communists (the Soviets in the past, Chinese in the present), the world would have been better off without our entrance, escalation and loss in Vietnam. Machiavelli believed war to be an extension of international politics and the politics of the Cold War. The domino theory is not a very sound theory but it gets trotted out fairly often.

I read a bit of Loudon and looked up RT.COM and Loudon is correct, it is just propaganda which is answered well here: http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/can-the-su-25-intercept-and-shoot-down-a-777/

154 posted on 08/31/2014 5:49:28 PM PDT by palmer (This comment is not approved or cleared by FDA)
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To: 1rudeboy
"isolationism," which unfortunately is a code word for, "more government."

AFAIK, isolationism means less government.

155 posted on 08/31/2014 5:51:09 PM PDT by palmer (This comment is not approved or cleared by FDA)
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To: palmer

Until you get into the tricky part of telling me where to travel, and whom to do business with . . . .


156 posted on 08/31/2014 6:23:12 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: palmer
AFAIK, isolationism means less government.

Agreed, in fact, I'm not sure if "isolationism" would even be relevant to the discussion of big government/small government except in that less foreign intervention would mean less use of government resources.

Before Iraq, wars were things the Democrats always got into for the most part, Vietnam, Korea and so on. And Gulf War I conceivably was justified but I remember Conservatives who certainly didn't want to even go to that.

157 posted on 08/31/2014 6:54:12 PM PDT by BeadCounter
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To: Mariner

I think it is clear which one of us understand what Reagan’s policy would be regarding Russia today, and it is not you.


158 posted on 08/31/2014 6:55:48 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

Kremlin - A fake YouTube page has appeared in recent days, using the official Ukraine Today logo but featuring Russian-language anti-Ukrainian video content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b6H-yTgREg


159 posted on 08/31/2014 7:05:14 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: no-to-illegals

“Whom in whose right mind would want a war? putin”

Obama, I would guess.


160 posted on 08/31/2014 7:32:12 PM PDT by chooseascreennamepat
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