Posted on 08/30/2014 9:30:24 AM PDT by No One Special
Putin has invaded Ukraine. Is it hysterical to prepare for total war with Russia? Or is it naive not to?
WARSAW, Poland—Over and over again—throughout the entirety of my adult life, or so it feels—I have been shown Polish photographs from the beautiful summer of 1939: The children playing in the sunshine, the fashionable women on Krakow streets. I have even seen a picture of a family wedding that took place in June 1939, in the garden of a Polish country house I now own. All of these pictures convey a sense of doom, for we know what happened next. September 1939 brought invasion from both east and west, occupation, chaos, destruction, genocide. Most of the people who attended that June wedding were soon dead or in exile. None of them ever returned to the house.
In the past few days, Russian troops bearing the flag of a previously unknown country, Novorossiya, have marched across the border of southeastern Ukraine.
In retrospect, all of them now look naive. Instead of celebrating weddings, they should have dropped everything, mobilized, prepared for total war while it was still possible. And now I have to ask: Should Ukrainians, in the summer of 2014, do the same? Should central Europeans join them?
I realize that this question sounds hysterical, and foolishly apocalyptic, to American or Western European readers. But hear me out, if only because this is a conversation many people in the eastern half of Europe are having right now. In the past few days, Russian troops bearing the flag of a previously unknown country, Novorossiya, have marched across the border of southeastern Ukraine. The Russian Academy of Sciences recently announced it will publish a history of Novorossiya this autumn, presumably tracing its origins back to Catherine the Great.
(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...
WWIII? If Europe had stood up to Germany under Hitler there may have never have been a WWII, but we all know what happened when they didn’t stand up against Germany. The result of appeasement is death.
The Kaliningrad Oblast is unquestionably on the table.
Why do you suppose Germany is promoting federalization or partition of the Ukraine?
Was the Budapest memorandum submitted to the Senate for ratification?
Didn't think so.
** Jim I know you know this, but others may not.
A “sole-executive agreement’ can only be negotiated and entered into through the PRESIDENT’S AUTHORITY 4 WAYS:
1. in FOREIGN POLICY,
2. as COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF of the armed forces,
3. from a PRIOR ACT OF CONGRESS, or
4. from a PRIOR TREATY.
BUDAPEST MEMORANDIUM under NPT:
NUCLEAR NON-PROLIFERATION TREATY (NPT)—signed 1968, came into force 1970: An international treaty (currently with 189 member states) to limit the spread of nuclear weapons. The treaty has three main pillars: nonproliferation, disarmament, and the right to peacefully use nuclear technology.
UKRAINE TREATY IS ONE OF THE FORMER Soviet states that disarmed and joined the NPT as non-nuclear weapons states:
[Between 1946 and 1999, the United States completed nearly 16,000 international agreements. Only 912 of those agreements were treaties, submitted to the Senate for approval as outlined in Article II of the United States Constitution. Since the Franklin Roosevelt presidency, only 6% of international accords have been completed as Article II treaties. Most of these executive agreements consist of congressional-executive agreements.
Well, that was a fun read for a Saturday night. I think I will start drinking now.
I have to laugh. Let’s start a Russian war in September. Yes, sir. That will work out fine.
So you think we should forcibly liberate Ukraine? With what?
Ukraine, indeed, was a member of the nuclear club. That's what the Budapest Accord was all about. Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear weapons -- leftovers from the collapse of the Soviet Union -- in return for security assurances from the Russian Federation, the United States and the United Kingdom.
Goes to show how much faith one should place in the international pledges of the Russian Federation, doesn't it? Not to mention those of the United States...
Why should America’s sons bleed for people who refuse to bleed themselves. If a country hasn’t put sufficient effort into is On my way! Military and defense then screw them.
We never learn.
“I’m sure its a decent system, but if they are so good, why do we and the Israelis blow through them so easily?”
Thanks to our Wag the Dog president, Russia is considering its first foreign sale of the S-400 system, to China.
So, unless we and the Israelis have been attacking Russia itself, we have never tried engaging the S-400 system. You may want to research it.
As to their older systems...since we NEVER engaged their best weapons, only the ones they exported. It’s also worth noting the S-400 system was developed using Western technology, as it was developed after the Soviet Union broke up and export controls were greatly loosened.
“Not everything is about Obama, and the US has interests apart from whether certain actions benefit or do not benefit Obama politically.”
Everything has to be looked at in context. We’ve spent 20 years disarming, Russia has spent the past 10 years MODERNIZING their military. Perhaps we should do the same, first.
I don’t see a “political benefit” in going to war if our emaciated military going to get whacked - but I guess some of us need to find out the hard way.
It is in our interest we (the west NATO nations) supply Ukraine with the weapons it needs to rid itself of the Russian invaders. We can support Ukraine and show Russia our support is unwavering without military combat against Russia. As it is we are doing exactly what we did/did not do with Germany prior to it’s invasions of European nations. That resulted in WWII. This weakness is far more likely to lead to war we will have to fight.
Ukrainians are bleeding and dying, but apparently not enough for you. No one here is asking Americans to go and fight in combat with Ukrainians.
Ukraine isn’t asking us too, either
LOL! Yeah, we'll just drop crates of M-16s, wash our hands and walk away.
As it is we are doing exactly what we did/did not do with Germany prior to it’s invasions of European nations. That resulted in WWII.
This isn't 1939 redux. It's 1914 redux, only with better weapons.
But what do you care? Will you be fighting? I have five more years left on my contract. If WWIII breaks out, I'll definitely be attending.
And for what? The Donbas? I couldn't care less.
“Ukraine honored their commitment & allowed their weapons to be destroyed.”
A lot of good that did! You can’t trust the U.S. under Obama! It is now everbody for themselves.
When you learn to comprehend what you read let me know, your comments don’t make sense in relation to what I wrote.
They are fighting some and bleeding some. I don’t care. It’s not my country and is not vital to my country. They were/are a corrupt country. They are not worth sacrificing american’s sons to modify the outcome. We should learn the lesson taught about of corruption and politics.
The USA is NATO. No other country bothered to incest in their safety and security. The Ukraine had a ton of weaponry. What didn’t get sold, scrapped rusted away. It is NOT in our interest to change the outcome or delay what’s coming.
What happened to that vast military arsenal they inherited 25 years ago?
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