Posted on 08/27/2014 12:56:33 AM PDT by se99tp
Current political situation suggests that the silent permission of West for a federalization of Ukraine may be already a fact. Russia is restoring its political, military and economic influence on one more state closer to the border with the Pre-1989 West.
It may not be unrealistic to think that if the pragmatic Germany sold Ukraine to Putin, unimpressed by the incredible price it paid in blood for an independence of the KGB regime in Moscow, Berlin can also trade the other political achievements of Ronald Reagan with Russia.
(Excerpt) Read more at ccdreport.blogspot.com.au ...
“Obama has to listen what the people say!”
Yes he does. What do you imagine the people are saying about possible American military intervention in Ukraine?
All American FP decision making starts by asking the question, will this strengthen or weaken China.
Listens to what people say,
You’re great Vladimir.
We love you Vladimir.
Keep up the good work Vladimir.
You suck Vladimir..[BANG]
See. He was listening.
The 2 plus 4 Treaty on Re-unification of Germany
The Orange Revolution and a western leaning govt
Bush's failed attempt to get Ukraine and Georgia into NATO
The Russian clawback and getting a Russian leaning govt into power
Renewal of Russia's 50 year lease on the Crimean port
The 2nd Orange Revolution and re-establishment of a western leaning govt
Russia's move to protect the port
Russia's attempt to establish a slice of eastern Ukaraine as a corridor connecting Russia to Crimea and the port.
Or you can look at Russia’s historic mistreatment of its neighbors in the time of the Czars, the Soviets, and now Putin and realize that there is always an excuse for Russia to bully its neighbors. You can look at the mass starvation in Ukraine in 1933. The Katyn Massacre in Poland is something the Russians have never admitted to, like the Japanese and Nanking. Russia’s invasion of Poland in 1939. Russia’s mistreatment of minorities whom they’ve pushed back and forth in relentless series of ethnic cleansing. Putin’s one-state religion (Russian Orthodox kowtowing to Putin’s ukases.) Putin’s state-controlled news media. And somehow the poor, paranoid Russian mentality would have us believe that the NATO and the West are both decadent, weak, and a huge threat to their paranoid fantasies. I’m not buying any of it. Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet empire. You either see that or you don’t. You either are pro-freedom and pro-American or you’re pro-Putin.
Unless one supported those illegal wars in Syria and Libya one does have all the credibility in the world to lecture Putin and Russia on their bloody aggression in Ukraine.
So where's your indignation about what Putin is doing? To be fair, perhaps I missed it. You could set the record straight now.
That’s the failure in logic, right there: if what we did is wrong, then what they are doing is wrong also. If what Russia is doing is “ok,” then what we did is “ok” also.
I guess the difference between purgatory and Russia isn’t too far. Now, why can’t Russia butt out?
Let me know when Russia bombs Kiev on Easter day like NATO did to Belgrade and then we can talk apples to apples.
What NATO did to Yugoslavia was in violation of the Westphalian order.
What is the order that replaced it? Russia is saying NATO ended the Westphalian order and now Russia has to assume it lives in the Darwinian jungle of survival of the fittest.
In 1998, at a Symposium on the Continuing Political Relevance of the Peace of Westphalia, the then NATO Secretary-General Javier Solana said that "humanity and democracy [were] two principles essentially irrelevant to the original Westphalian order" and levied a criticism that "the Westphalian system had its limits. For one, the principle of sovereignty it relied on also produced the basis for rivalry, not community of states; exclusion, not integration."
http://www.nato.int/docu/speech/1998/s981112a.htm
I’m not talking about an individual’s credibility. I’m talking about the US government’s credibility. And I didn’t say anything about Syria, although that would have been a mistake as well. I said at the time when Clinton attacked Serbia it was an in your face move against Russia that would come back to haunt us. Russia a long history of backing the Serbs. They went to war on their behalf in WWI. At the time it was a pro-Western Yeltsin, not Putin in charge, and Russian public opinion was very pro-American. Clinton’s was against Serbia was a big part of the change that brought Putin to power.
When I said “unfortunately” we have no credibility I do mean it. I wish we did.
As for Putin, he’s a thug and a nationalist. Trying to get Ukraine into NATO is a mistake and a provocation. How would we react in Mexico signed a military treaty with China or Russia and allowed them to station their forces there?
Depends on what we did to make Mexico fear and mistrust us.
It’s true that the UN did not agree to NATO’s bombing of Serbia, but that does not mean it was against international law. America has a veto in the UN so if the UN wanted to condemn NATO’s action, we would just veto it. NATO’s attack on Libya was authorized by the UN.
The way their invasion is going, with the mask of “separatists” wearing really thin, I guess they will be going all-in soon enough. Possibly hundreds of Russian soldiers have been killed and I think Putin is getting tired of this trudging along.
The UN doesn’t make international law. It preexists the UN. There is nothing under international law that makes it legal for NATO or anyone else to decide to just depose governments we don’t like, let alone give part of a country away to rebels. And that was the original posters point about Putin. If Putin’s actions are illegal then so was our attack on Serbia. And Russia also has a UN veto.
Countries have a right to act when they or other countries are attacked, or when their security, or that of other countries are threatened. The Serbs in Kosovo were no threat to any other country, and they were fighting Muslim terrorist rebels in their own territory. There was no legal justification for us doing what we did. But it didn’t matter because we were strong enough to do so, and nobody could stop it. Well, what goes around comes around.
How about if they just elected a Hugo Chavez type? Then what?
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