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To: LevinFan
The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G.K. Chesterton
192 posted on 08/07/2014 2:06:37 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: bamahead
The anti-libertarian argument in a nutshell:

It's not REPUBLICAN!!!! DEMONCHILD!!!! BEGONE!!!

That being said, they are missing one key point: libertarianism can be construed to support a lot of things, but ultimately, the anti-l's forget the most important factor in the equation - the individual. It comes down to the individual, and the individual's morality. Just because something is legal or accepted doesn't mean it's the "moral" or "American" thing to do. I'll give an example:

Libertarianism can be construed to support pedophilia, simply by virtue of the very free nature of libertarian ideology. On the other hand, anyone that thinks libertarians, such as myself, support pedophilia, are the most ignorant in the worst kind of way.

It's sad, really.

197 posted on 08/07/2014 2:36:45 PM PDT by dware (3 prohibited topics in mixed company: politics, religion and operating systems...)
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To: bamahead

Does this quote, a basic truth, mean nothing.

Your freedom to wave your fist ends at the beginning of my nose.

If most of these self harms were only to one’s self, I would not disagree. But that is rarely the end of it. A drug user, addicted to his fix, will do ANYTHING to get his fix. Steal, hurt, kill, sell ten minutes with his daughter. While high, he can cause untold harm to others. To his family, to other bystanders. He doesn’t give them the choice of whether they pay the price for his self destruction. A DUI driver doesn’t ask if his victims want to get hurt or killed.

A drug dealer, obtains his gain my preying upon another’s addiction, and the harm his addicts will cause. I’ve known people taken advantage of by such trash. He will kill anyone for his gain, use his money for power over others. He is nothing but a parasite, and not worthy of any consideration or freedom. He is less than a dog. Make no mistake about that.

Very few ruin themselves in total isolation. They take others to ruin with them. Most of these vices cause massive problems, directly related to them. It can’t be ignored.

The moment what you do can affect me, mine, or someone else who has no choice or options, is the moment I don’t care about your sense of freedom. You’ve already chosen to take that from your victim.


208 posted on 08/07/2014 4:34:00 PM PDT by LevinFan
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