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To: 98ZJ USMC

I think the old M1911A1s I worked on before we switched to the M9 were all pretty much worn out junk, but what do I know? I just repaired them. We definitely saw fewer M9s come through my shop after the switch than we did M1911s before. It was not even close. The only M9s that I remember working on were ECOD jobs that were crushed by tank turrets and stuff like that. M9s have been very accurate and very reliable in my experience. The biggest problem is that they are 9mms but that is what the military required. The only reliability issues I know of with M9s were early model slide failures that occurred after 20,000 rounds (beyond the specified life of the firearm) and feeding issues because the military decided to go cheap and bought non-Beretta magazines that did not do well in the sand. I believe that both problems have since been rectified. I personally own a couple of fairly high end 1911s and a stock civilian M9 (Beretta 92FS). I have not shot either 1911 in a couple of years but the 92FS goes to the range with me pretty much every time and I tend to shoot very well with it. YMMV.


60 posted on 08/03/2014 11:24:33 PM PDT by jospehm20
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To: jospehm20; osagebowman; g'nad; Ramius; TalonDJ; ExGeeEye
I personally own a couple of fairly high end 1911s and a stock civilian M9 (Beretta 92FS). I have not shot either 1911 in a couple of years but the 92FS goes to the range with me pretty much every time and I tend to shoot very well with it. YMMV.

That's been my experience to a large extent, too. I got a good deal one a virtually-unfired Dan Wesson Custom Combat Commander (one of their "entry level" items). Extremely accurate, and handles like a dream due to grip reduction (I think just about anybody can benefit from that), and hand-fitted tight tolerances.

I would also never carry it for serious work, because the tolerances are too tight for 100% confidence in that role, and you can never carry enough .45ACP ammo to feel you have an adequate supply, anyway. There are a lot of good-to-great .45ACP designs out there, because the leet forces of most western countries demand .45ACP for all of their serious work. They're constantly tweaking them, and evaluating new items on the market that they can buy with their black budgets.

The question for the rank-and-file GI or civilian is what to expect in the way of a good deal from an out-of-the-box 9mm that will never receive tweaking or special tuning. I have found the Beretta 9x series, and the CZ 75 family, to be great right out of the box, with lots of tricks, most of them small, for increasing accuracy even more. That takes you back to the realm of hand labor, and increased need to "baby" the weapon.

What do the pre-Glock weapons have in common? They're all all-metal, and mostly not being made any more except in smaller quantities. Or else they carry a premium price for steel or alloy frames, like SiG or CZ.

Beretta and CZ have official polymer replacements for their "classic" available, and they're both winners in terms of accuracy, ergonomics, and insanely reliability. They're widely used by cops and smaller western militaries around the world, even for their leet troops.

I bought a near-new Beretta M9 civilian version because none of the 9x series are thick on the ground right now, and Beretta is only making new M9A1s for the goobermint until they fulfill their contract, and then they move all the machinery from MD to TN, and maybe start up the 9x series for the American civilian market only.

After 50 round just for break-in, and a few minor tweaks for personal preferences, I fired the M9 at my usual "social interaction" range of ten yards. I thought I whiffed each round until I brought the target back, and found all 15 shots in two ragged groups inside the 8-ring. I'm just a hacker when it comes to handguns, but I've only gotten out-of-the-box accuracy like this from CZ and H&K. CZ is under-appreciated and hard to find, while H&K is muchly esteemed, hard to find, and hard to afford. My M9, and now companions 92FS Versatec and 96G Centurion all now run smooth as silk, are accurate far beyond my humble skills, and would make a perfect EDC for me, except they won't fit in my pocket.

So I compromised on a Walther PPK, where it's wimpy ballistics are still sufficient for my needs, especially considering its sterling qualities of accuracy, ergonomics, and smooth, dependable operation. Demonstrated performance on my part to put the rounds instinctively where I want them, at the range that concerns me, goes a long way to solving many issues.

67 posted on 08/04/2014 2:25:47 AM PDT by 300winmag (Whatever CAN go wrong has already happened. We just don't know about it yet.)
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