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To: kabar
You are acting as an apologist for that slimy, KGB punk Putin.

No, I spent a career planning and training to fight the old Soviet Union that threatened to invade Western Europe. I am thinking rationally because too many people are letting their emotions sweep them into irrational war fever without knowing whether it is justified and without counting the potential costs. Now is the time to step back and examine "Who's zooming who?" before the world stumbles into a major war that almost nobody but Satan wants.

It does concern me that NATO -- a government program that once served a useful purpose -- is looking for a new mission and is hell-bent on finding one by pressing all the way to Russia's borders. Old scores always itch to be "settled" but borderlands serve to keep the old antagonists at bay. While I was willing to fight to defend the British, Germans and Italians, but I am not willing to shed American blood for Albania, Bulgaria, Romania or Slovenia. It concerns me that NATO is seeking to erase the borderlands, and that one of these newly-joined little angry chihuahuas is going to bite the bear so it can drag us by our treaty into fighting their battle for them. No thanks! Our national security is not threatened there.

47 posted on 07/23/2014 2:51:52 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine
You are called a Putin Lover or FSB Agent by the Putin Haters if you question anything the US is doing right now with regards to the Ukraine. Like playing chess with pigeons.

Great posts BTW.

49 posted on 07/23/2014 4:32:05 PM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Always A Marine
No, I spent a career planning and training to fight the old Soviet Union that threatened to invade Western Europe. I am thinking rationally because too many people are letting their emotions sweep them into irrational war fever without knowing whether it is justified and without counting the potential costs. Now is the time to step back and examine "Who's zooming who?" before the world stumbles into a major war that almost nobody but Satan wants. <

You are creating a phony strawman. No American politician is suggesting that we fight a war in Ukraine. There is no public support for boots on the ground. There are other choices. We can support the legitimate government of Ukraine in other ways.

It does concern me that NATO -- a government program that once served a useful purpose -- is looking for a new mission and is hell-bent on finding one by pressing all the way to Russia's borders. Old scores always itch to be "settled" but borderlands serve to keep the old antagonists at bay.

NATO is expanding because those countries formerly under the heel of the Soviets want protection from the Russians wishing to return to the days of the Soviet empire. "Borderlands" don't keep nations free or protect them from invasion. Strong and credible defenses do. Do you honestly believe that NATO is a threat to the Russians? Or that the Russians fear NATO? Give me a break. The US has just a token force in Europe. Most of the NATO countries spend about 1% or less of GDP on defense.

I served in Italy as a naval officer 1968-70. There is no comparison between force levels then and now. It is preposterous to paint NATO as a threat to Russia.

While I was willing to fight to defend the British, Germans and Italians, but I am not willing to shed American blood for Albania, Bulgaria, Romania or Slovenia. It concerns me that NATO is seeking to erase the borderlands, and that one of these newly-joined little angry chihuahuas is going to bite the bear so it can drag us by our treaty into fighting their battle for them. No thanks! Our national security is not threatened there.

Nonsense. First, Sovenia and Albania have no contiguous border with Russia. And neither do Bulgaria and Romania except they are on the Black Sea. The NATO Charter requires all members to support Article 5. The only time that was implemented was NATO's support of us after 9/11, which is why Afghanistan is under NATO command.

The real threat is a Russian miscalculation by asserting its right to protect ethnic Russians in the Baltics or elsewhere. This is why the Russian Ukrainian adventurism sparks such fear in Europe, especially among those countries that were freed after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They understand the Russian mentality far better than apparently you do. It is precisely the reason why they elected (read desperate) to join NATO.

50 posted on 07/23/2014 4:58:16 PM PDT by kabar
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