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To: achilles2000
It is interesting, though, what people will invent to justify their received prejudices.

Well, it was the Constitutional convention that invented the notion that the Constitution was a pact between "We the People of the United States." And, Patrick Henry was just one of the many people who were clear as to the implications of that phrase. As he pointed out at Virginia's ratifying convention:

"Sir, give me leave to demand, what right had they to say, We, the People. My political curiosity, exclusive of my anxious solicitude for the public welfare, leads me to ask who authorised them to speak the language of, We, the People, instead of We, the States? States are the characteristics, and the soul of a confederation. If the States be not the agents of this compact, it must be one great consolidated National Government of the people of all the States."

Patrick Henry got the message. And, you should, too. There is no virtue in confusing yourself about whether or not American citizens have Constitutional rights as individuals or whether states/local governments are required to respect those rights.

I suppose if Obamalini ordered the Secret Service to arrest the staff and owners of Fox and hold them at undisclosed locations with no right of habeas corpus, criticism of it would “just be because he is black”.

If Obama did something like that, "it would be wrong, that's for sure." (Sorry, Nixon.) However, I would not pretend that his wrongful act should render him responsible for choices that Americans make about the size of their government in the year 2165.

The programs that addict the seniors to government are unconstitutional.

Well, you and I (and about 257 other Americans) believe that. But, most people think we're wrong. Maybe they're right.

Oh, yes, and the past does play a major role in creating the future. When the bond markets begin treating us like Greece, it will largely be because of things set in motion by long dead presidents, some of whom implemented programs and policies(e.g. Wilson, FDR, and Johnson)that were enabled by earlier dead presidents who established the policies’ principles, e.g. Lincoln and TR.

Our bills are our bills. We make our own choices. Just as bond buyers have the power to quit buying bonds, we have the power to quit selling them. It's up to us. Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, LBJ and all the King's horses and all the King's men can't help us now.

For better or for worse, we're going to do what we want to do.

337 posted on 06/16/2014 4:32:49 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Tau Food

Hanging it all on a Preamble, which is not substantive law? Nice try. Here is Heritage, which is hardly a hotbed of originalist thinking (remember, it birthed Romneycare):

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/0/essays/1/preamble

But, really, the rest of your response gives your position away. The federal government isn’t bound by the provisions of the Constitution; Americans have no rights that the government is bound to respect. If most people like some unlawful action, well then, those who object must be eccentric. I would point out that Hitler legitimately won his first election. That didn’t make his subsequent actions lawful or right, and the election certainly didn’t create an obligation to obey a lawless state.

“If Obama did something like that, “it would be wrong, that’s for sure.” (Sorry, Nixon.) However, I would not pretend that his wrongful act should render him responsible for choices that Americans make about the size of their government in the year 2165.”

You obviously don’t understand precedent, either in how it affects what we call a legal system or the role it plays in social conditioning. Lincoln and the Radical Republicans that held power after him established institutions and precedents that others built on. I didn’t say Lincoln was the sole source of the problem of a lawless federal government, but in many cases he and the RRs were the fountainheads.

“our bills are our bills?” No debt incurred unlawfully is a legal or moral obligation, e.g. the invalidation of billons of dollars of “WHOOPS” bonds because the Washington utilities lacked the authority to enter into certain kinds of contracts?

A government actually operating under the Constitution doesn’t have the authority to spend or do most of what is spent or done, whether a majority approves or not. Of course, I would agree, as I’ve said before, that the American Constitutional Republic is as dead today as the Roman Republic in the days of Augustus Caesar. Conservatives with views like yours are a contributing cause. Hope you like our lawless police state.


338 posted on 06/16/2014 5:07:06 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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