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To: DoodleDawg

The states signed the Treaty of Paris as sovereign entities. Their association under the Articles defined a form of association that the signatories declared “Perpetual Union”. The Constitution defines a very different polity from the Articles. The states initially outside of the Constitution were obviously NOT part of the “United States” defined by the Constitution because they had not consented to it by ratifying it. At most, they remained a part of the “United States” confederacy defined by the Articles, but in fact, everyone recognized that the “United States” under the Articles had been dissolved, which meant that they did revert to their original status as independent states.

Michael Farris wrote an article a few years ago trying to argue that the Constitution was just an amendment to the Articles precisely to avoid having to conclude that 9 states just walked away from the “Perpetual Union”.

BTW, I am not arguing that the original 13 states should be forced to return to the Articles ;-)


253 posted on 05/29/2014 8:39:12 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: achilles2000
The states signed the Treaty of Paris as sovereign entities.

Really? Can you identify the individual who signed the treaty for each of the 13 sovereign entities?

The states initially outside of the Constitution were obviously NOT part of the “United States” defined by the Constitution because they had not consented to it by ratifying it.

Unlike the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution did not define the United States in its preamble. The only time it mentions any state by name is when it outlines the number of representatives each state is entitled to until the next census. Now if you look at Article I, Section 2, Clause 3, all 13 states are entitled to representation. So if you want to look at it that way they were defined by the Constitution as part of the United States too.

...which meant that they did revert to their original status as independent states.

You say that as if they were ever independent states.

Michael Farris wrote an article a few years ago trying to argue that the Constitution was just an amendment to the Articles precisely to avoid having to conclude that 9 states just walked away from the “Perpetual Union”.

Admittedly the Constitution does not use the term 'perpetual union' but that doesn't mean that the Union was somehow disbanded by the Constitution and reformed as an new and separate nation. They United States as a nation was formalized by the Articles of Confederation. It existed before the Constitution was written, it existed during the ratification process, and it's existed ever since.

254 posted on 05/29/2014 9:01:55 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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