Posted on 05/13/2014 9:35:11 AM PDT by marthemaria
Pope Francis would absolutely baptize an alien from Mars, if one showed up at the Vatican and asked for it. During his weekly homily on Monday, Franics said that aliens — which he imagines could be "Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them" — should be baptized just like anyone else who asks for it, because it's not up to any human to decide who should receive the Holy Spirit.
In other words: if God prompts some Martians to come to Earth, find the Pope, and say "we want in on this Catholicism thing." The pope would probably say "OK. cool." But probably in Latin.
Francis laid out the hypothetical situation as part of a discussion of the early Church's baptizing of Gentiles. Basically, the earliest Church contained some tension over whether there was any difference between the very early Jewish followers of Christ, and Gentiles who converted from paganism to Christianity, who would be considered "unclean" by the standards of Jewish law. Peter eventually persuades his followers that everyone is open to becoming Christian by saying, "If then God gave them the same gift He gave to us when we came to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to be able to hinder God?"
So here's how Francis tried to illustrate that point on Monday, with a much more modern example:
That was unthinkable. If – for example - tomorrow an expedition of Martians came, and some of them came to us, here... Martians, right? Green, with that long nose and big ears, just like children paint them... And one says, 'But I want to be baptized!' What would happen?"
What would happen? They'd get baptized, that's what would happen. He goes on:
"When the Lord shows us the way, who are we to say, 'No, Lord, it is not prudent! No, lets do it this way'... Who are we to close doors? In the early Church, even today, there is the ministry of the ostiary [usher]. And what did the ostiary do? He opened the door, received the people, allowed them to pass. But it was never the ministry of the closed door, never."
The Vatican's astronomer — the same one who dismissed 'Intelligent Design' as 'bad theology' — said in 2010 that he'd baptize an alien because "any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul." But, again, only if they request it. So glad that's settled. Now all we have to do is wait.
“Wormholes are more than a theoretical construct.”
Sure, they are more than theoretical, but still useless for travel purposes. You could jump into a wormhole that is connected to another wormhole lightyears away, but you could never get out of the wormhole, so it’s a dead end for us.
“All of them would have the same potential for some relationship with God as humans.
It is possible, if such rational animals exist, that some of them have never sinned.”
If they had sinned, though, they could not simply be redeemed by Jesus as part and parcel of his redemption of humans. His death on earth would not qualify as a propitiary sacrifice for their sins, since, under God’s law, a debt can only be repaid by the original debtor or his direct descendants. That is why Christ had to become a man in order to redeem us.
So, to redeem a species of sinful aliens, He would have to become one of those aliens and perform a similar redemptive act.
“If there is a problem like the goat/horse/Martian doesn’t have a soul, there is no harm done.”
However, if these hypothetical aliens had souls, then there would be a harm done, as you would be misleading them into thinking that a baptism would do anything for them, when it would not. Their requirements for their salvation could not be the same as humans, so that mistake could jeopardize their souls.
You are the one asking if the animal should be baptized.
I didn’t bring up the absurdity, you did.
You are arguing my point.
I don’t understand your theology.
You seem to be saying God is not God and Creator of the universe and any other life that may exist.
To my mind, if there are any other creations in God’s image, then Christ is also their Lord. Do you disagree?
“There have been a lot of people on this earth that were/are satisfied with just God.”
If I get your point, that is a different argument - whether one believes in Christ.
I think the analogous question would be, can an ET convert to Judaism?
You are mistaken ... and all you need do is look at your reference to goats (I used Gorilla because Coco has shown herself more aware than a goat). You have conflated my post with someone else’s (who mentioned goats), but I don’t expect you to think clearly enough to figure this all out and have witnessed your need for ‘last wording’, so I’ll stop responding to you now because wrestling with ... well you know the analogy.
Boogieman explained it better and more concicely than me here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3155467/posts?page=97#97
Leave obama, Hillary, et al, out of this.
ok
There is a difference between being the creator, the Lord, and the redeemer. If God created life elsewhere, then He is of course its creator, and also its Lord, but if He has not redeemed that life, then He is not their redeemer.
I don’t think you need to be hostile.
That’s why I keep saying life created in God’s image.
If they did not fall, as we did, then they wouldn’t need redemption.
But what if they too fell?
I can't believe that the Pope just awakened one day and decided to address the issue of extraterrestrials.
What about the inhabitants of Kolob?
Thanks for pointing out Boogieman’s post.
I think this is rather an absurd exercise.
But, as long as it is a topic, if life is created in God’s image, as we were, and it falls, as we did, it would be under a - or the - curse as well.
I believe Christ is God and and cannot but be their redeemer as well.
If such a thing were to be and there’s no way we can know that.
Sometimes people use hyperbole to make a point. Methinks this might be one of those times.
Bwahahahaha ... um, it is ‘a planet around Kolob’, IIRC. Inhabitants of Kolob would be mighty strange indeed, since Kolob was the Smithian star mythology.
It has always amazed me that, on a planet that is largely covered with oceans, we insist on believing that superior races must originate from distant planets.
Just guessing, but a race intelligent enough to conquer intrastellar travel probably has the soul thing down.
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