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To: G Larry; Romulus
G Larry -

I think there may be some confusion due to definitions that don't distingish between maiming and torture.

The main element of maiming, would be the permanent injury or loss of function of a limb, organ or system, without therapeutic purpose. It could even be done painlessly, e.g. putting someone under anesthesia and then removing a healthy arm. This would be maiming without torture.

On the other hand, the main element of torture is the directly-intended, deliberate and aforethought infliction of extreme pain and fear, whether as a means or as an end. It can even be done without physical harm. Giving drugs which cause a transient panic state, and committing rape with no injury, and, yeah, water-boarding, would be torture without maiming.

The intention in torture as "enhanced interrogation," is to deprive the subject of rational control of his behavior by creating abnormal mental states induced by pain and fear. It doesn't even have to be a realistic fear. For instance, causing someone to hallucinate and convincing him that the horrors he experienced will recur and recur until he cooperates... that's torture.

This is the kind of stuff that gave Soviet psychiatric facilities a bad name. It's morally wrong.

138 posted on 04/30/2014 4:52:20 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("I bow my knee to the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
The intention in torture as "enhanced interrogation," is to deprive the subject of rational control of his behavior by creating abnormal mental states induced by pain and fear. It doesn't even have to be a realistic fear. For instance, causing someone to hallucinate and convincing him that the horrors he experienced will recur and recur until he cooperates... that's torture.

Mrs. Don-o, I hope you've read in my posts that I am also opposed to torture and my place in this thread is solely to expose "palaeocon" hypocrisy. But really, I must ask you if you are not familiar with all the Protestant "black legends" about the Catholic Church (or, perhaps more correctly, Catholic secular authorities) using torture. My point is not to further blacken the name of the Catholic Church or to excuse torture by Americans but rather to point out that during that time in history, I'm sure it was considered quite orthodox to defend torture. Now suddenly as soon as the beneficiary of such activities is alleged to be Jews and Israel, those same orthodox Catholics have, perhaps for the first time in their lives, discovered that they are against torture. This is what rankles me, not sincere opposition to inflicting pain on people until they say exactly what you want them to so you'll stop.

145 posted on 04/30/2014 5:23:15 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Waterboarding is (or was) part of U.S. Military Officer Training.

It is NOT Torture!

How many lives were saved due to waterboarding KSM?

This is NOT a case of “ends justifying the means”!


150 posted on 04/30/2014 5:51:00 PM PDT by G Larry (Which of Obama's policies do you think I'd support if he were white?)
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