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To: Vermont Lt

How is Ukraine in our National Interest.


You are asking the wrong question. How is an aggressive and empire building Russia in our National Interest? How is Russian support of thr Iranian nuclear program in our national interest? How is Russian destabilization of NATO countries in our national interest? How is Russian threats of economic warfare in our national interest?

You can be an hobbyist isolationist if you choose. Unfortunately, eventually everybody on Main Street USA will pay if bad actor countries are giving free reign.


17 posted on 04/18/2014 6:48:30 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: lodi90

I think you have failed to see that Mainstreet USA is already under siege, but not because of Russia. When a government becomes a police state, uses propaganda and regulation, mandates, registrations, agencies of government for punishment, you are no longer talking about freedom. You are denying what is the near threat for something that one day could be if you fail to take back your own house.

The US has no moral authority anymore, especially since Obama. We have become a new bad actor that uses world wide community organizing that has torn the world to shreds and set up this stage of misery.

I feel bad for Ukraine, because they have no good options. Either way, they will not enjoy real freedom which the US used to guarantee and fight for all over the world.

What are we supposed to say now? “hey Ukraine, come and be as free as what we have left of freedom”?


19 posted on 04/18/2014 7:02:29 AM PDT by dforest
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To: lodi90
How is an aggressive and empire building Russia in our National Interest? How is Russian support of thr Iranian nuclear program in our national interest? How is Russian destabilization of NATO countries in our national interest? How is Russian threats of economic warfare in our national interest? You can be an hobbyist isolationist if you choose. Unfortunately, eventually everybody on Main Street USA will pay if bad actor countries are giving free reign.

I'm most certainly not an isolationist. But Russia is a huge, somewhat sparsely populated country surrounded by strong, dangerous neighbors. For hundreds of years Russia has been very sensitive to border states that it sees as potential threats. At the moment it has three threats: (1) the European Union and NATO, which could be at its doorstep if Ukraine continues to move towards the West (just as would have happened w/Georgia prior to the 2008 war), (2) Islamic extremism both within Russia and in the neighboring Stans and (3) China. Russia has been actively threatened by #1 and #2 -- and simply lacks the ability to do much of anything about #3 except beef up its nuclear deterrent. However angry Putin's actions make us, they are consistent with a long Russian tradition of perceived self interest in creating buffer states between it and potential external threats.

To be clear, I don't think Russia's invasion of Ukraine is morally defensible but it's neither surprising nor a sign that Putin is about to send tank brigades into the Fulda Gap and start World War III.

22 posted on 04/18/2014 7:19:55 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: lodi90
"Unfortunately, eventually everybody on Main Street USA will pay if bad actor countries are giving free reign."

So, why not start with the "bad actors" in the Africa and work our way North to the Ukraine?

I figure if we stop the routine slaughter of Christians by Muzzies in Africa and the Arab countries by the time we get to the Ukraine they'll have gotten the hint that we're willing to fight for our values.

Funny how little Hell raising there is over the US arming Iz Lame scum in Syria who are murdering whole little towns full of Christians but there's all this deep concern for the Ukraine. What's with that, only what the EU wants is worth defending or does dealing with reality interfere with getting the propaganda message out?

As we speak Nigerians are fighting Muzzies tooth and nail to keep terror from destroying their freedom and starting the massive murder of Christians, but Ukrainians obviously want someone else to do it for them.

As for aid, sell them all the ammo they want. Shucks, I'd even go along with selling them stockpiles the BLM, HHS, Toilet Inspectors, and other benign US agencies have at half the original price. Jumping into the Ukraine is fiddling while Rome burns, as they say. After all, the EU was started with the idea of being the primary power center in Europe to replace US influence there so let them get on with it.

Let the Ukrainians fight to the last drop of someone elses' blood, not ours.

30 posted on 04/18/2014 11:40:48 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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