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To: MarDav
The nation of Israel and the disciples of Jesus’ day did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. That came after His ascension on Pentecost.

Oh, I agree with you on that one. In fact, one might almost say there was no such concept in Jewish tradition about a Holy Spirit as you perceive it today. It was invented... (you would say revealed) after Jesus was crucified.

Everything you’ve been questioning here about the [earthly] kingdom of God and Israel’s failure to comprehend that Christ had to die FIRST before this could be established can be understood in light of this actuality...

Yes, exactly! That is exactly what my point has been all along: that no one had any concept of Christ's mission being what people now think it to be ...until after it was all over, and their initial expectations were disappointed.

Do you understand the implications of this?

When Christ appears to the disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24) He confronts them about this very idea. Their messiah was dead. Their idea about Him setting up His kingdom came crashing down around them.

The question I keep asking is, why did they think this in the first place? Until we can come to an agreement on this, this starting point, there is no point trying to figure out anything that happened after he was crucified. First we need to understand what people thought he was doing there in the first place, and why they thought it.

424 posted on 04/20/2014 4:10:23 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

“The question I keep asking is, why did they think this in the first place?”

It keeps coming back to understanding the ENTIRE Word of God. Man has always rejected God. From the time of Adam’s sin, to the days of Noah where the thoughts of man were evil continually, to the days of the nation of Israel, man has been a God-rejector. To wonder why they would not be looking for the kind of redeemer/king/messiah that Christ represented amid the nation’s continual rejection of God at every turn is a bit amusing. Christ is just ANOTHER instance (admittedly, the most important, but another in a long line of instances) where God was reaching out to a people who were content to “make God in their own image”. As you are concerned with the kind of king they were looking for, take a look at the story in 1st Samuel where they began to try to fashion themselves (in their own image) as a people like the nations around them:

1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,
1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.
1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

The very idea of wanting/having a king (apart from God being their king) was an afront to God. It was a rejection of Him and His sovereignty. God let them have a king...Saul. His reign was a troubled one, where he failed to have victory of the nation’s chief enemy - the Philistines. After Saul’s death, God had another king to be raised up - David (a man after God’s own heart.) He is a type of Christ. Though an imperfect sinner, his [overall] faithfulness pleased God and God gave him victory and allowed him to establish a place where a house of God could be built (though he would not build it, but his son, Solomon). After more kings came — one after another. Some good, some okay, most bad. The nation of Israel was looking for these earthly kings to bring peace to the nation, but more times than not, troubles ensued (wars, captivities, etc.) They were looking for a human king to “deliver” them. They should have been looking for God to be their king. Enter Christ.

So, to your point...What are the implications of all this? They are these:
the nation of Israel, like people today all shout: “We will not have this man to rule over us!”
the nation of Israel, like the people today all shout: “We have no king but _________(fill in the blank - the Jews said, ‘Caesar’”

The nation of Israel, people today all reject their King, who is the King of Kings, the Lord Jesus Christ. Why they weren’t expecting Him, why they had no idea what their [true] King would look like, what His entrance would be like is as old as sin itself.


438 posted on 04/20/2014 5:06:29 PM PDT by MarDav
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