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To: HiTech RedNeck; Elsie
Well... fine. Some prophecy has to wait. What would you expect if there is prophecy concerning the very end and the very end isn’t here yet.

So one cannot say that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament prophecy. In fact, the more I hear about it, the less sense it makes.

No one seems to be able to explain succinctly what the Old Testament predicted that Jesus actually fulfilled. There's OT prophecy, and then there's prophecy Jesus made, and then there's Revelations prophecy. People jumble them all together but they are not the same.

1. As far as I can tell, OT prophecy suggests a re-instatement of Israel. Jesus did not do that, therefore he does not fulfill OT prophecy. You say that's coming. Okay. Well, it hasn't yet, has it?

2. Jesus foretold himself returning to establish a Kingdom of God. But he didn't do that. Peter and Paul apparently started up a few churches in Syria and Greece, and a few surrounding cities, but that's not a kingdom, that's a small franchise, and Jesus wasn't there at all.

3. Nothing in the acid trip that is Revelations has come true yet.

4. If OT prophecy DID refer to Jesus' disciples establishing Christian churches, it makes no sense whatsoever that Jewish prophecy would name Messiah a man who converts Jews into a different religion.

5. If Jesus ever does come back, he won't be establishing Israel as a Jewish kingdom, it would be as a Christian kingdom and thus not at all what the OT prophets had in mind.

6. And there would be no reason why this Messiah should be Jewish as Judaism is left behind in this vision.

Therefore it stands to reason that the story of Jesus is something that has been altered several times by several different generations of people to fit their needs. Who Jesus is changes with every layer of tinkering.

During his lifetime, he was clearly canvasing Jewish areas, addressing Jewish life, Jewish relations, and the Covenant with God. By creating a cabinet of 12 disciples (obviously symbolic of the 12 tribes) he was angling to be the Messiah that would reinstate Israel as a Jewish kingdom. That is why his lineage was important. You don't need a Jew to create a new religion not based on Judaism. You DO, however, need a Jew to re-establish Israel as a Jewish kingdom.

After his death, followers came to the conclusion that they must have been mistaken about his intent. They re-interpreted him as having come to establish a new religion. That's the first change.

Once the emperor Constantine got hold of it, he may have felt the Jesus story could be used to influence both Christians and Jews, thus beginning the tradition of trying to posit Jesus as a successful fulfillment of Jewish prophecy.

Then the Catholic Church tweaks it further, to create the notion of further fulfillment to come...

So you're finally left with the modern day version which makes no sense at all: That Jesus came to fulfill OT prophecy and that he did it... well, not yet but he's going to, because the OT prophecy isn't really about a Jewish Kingdom of Israel but a new religion built on the same site. If that's all they were after, Islam would have satisfied them. It makes no sense.

190 posted on 04/18/2014 8:01:22 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady; HiTech RedNeck; Elsie

>> “No one seems to be able to explain succinctly what the Old Testament predicted that Jesus actually fulfilled.” <<

.
That is not a fair nor accurate statement.

Yeshua fulfilled the prophecies of the three Spring Feasts: Passover, First Fruits, and Pentecost.

Passover is the ‘Biggie’ of the three, that fulfilled the promise that went out from Adam onward, of Salvation made possible under Grace through his payment of our debt with his sinless blood.
.


193 posted on 04/18/2014 8:34:38 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: A_perfect_lady

You said:If Jesus ever does come back, he won’t be establishing Israel as a Jewish kingdom, it would be as a Christian kingdom and thus not at all what the OT prophets had in mind.

Actually since gentile Christians are accepted as sons of Abraham via the spirit of adoption, it might be accurate to describe the coming kingdom as the restored Kingdom of Israel...by which the whole world is continually blessed! And that is what the prophets most assuredly meant!


210 posted on 04/18/2014 1:20:39 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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