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To: Paul R.
There were ‘two’ attempts on language...one they tried under this new interim Administration but it was scrubbed before it got to the floor, knowing it would cause way too much division and strife already remaining in the streets. The other was over a year ago perhaps...at any rate they fist fought in the chamber then as well....

I don't think the Russians care if it's 'official' from a Gov. business perspective or not....that certainly isn't what it means to them as evidenced in their reactions on both occasions.

As for the brawl...it was the Right Sector thugs who came storming down the aisle and pushed this guy .....then it was a free fall after that....But the fact still remains...many Ukrainians are not willing to listen to those who differ in how they view things in Parliment...and/or on the streets, and the Ukrainian groups would prefer not having Russians in the country altogether unless they agree with them. The country's divisions are really quite divided.....

This is a repost by a poster on another thread which does say it well....

"This seems like a war between the left, communism vs. Socialism. Ukraine is fighting against Russian control only to aspire for EU's Socialist-tyrannic membership..... I wonder if it's possible for real conservatism to take root in a continent milked on entitlements, it seems their sense of spectrum is very much truncated .... The only right this continent knows is just slightly right to communism which is Socialism (point of fact - Hitler lead 'National Labor Socialist Party')...... As many can attest, Europe lives and breathe on bureaucratic paperwork. Should the younger generation learn how to wean themselves from depending on entitlements and ever encroaching government, there might be hope for their culture, economy, and future."

44 posted on 04/10/2014 5:07:58 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Both sides’ extremists over-react, but I don’t think that is necessarily true of the average person. Plus — the mere fact that the language proposal was, in your words, “scrubbed before it got to the floor, knowing it would cause way too much division and strife”, shows that those running the show are cooler heads, perhaps.

That said, while the extent of any “radical” activity I’ve been involved with is either here on FR or observing a couple local TEA Party rally’s, if “stuff” here was happening anything like what was happening in Ukraine to trigger Maydan, I’d be out in the streets too, and it wouldn’t be because of some outside influence. Too many people discount just how fed up many Ukrainians were / are with fraudulent elections, politicians who rob them at every turn, and in-your-face corruption at every level of gov’t down to beat cop. You could have packed George Soros, Obama, the EU & company, all under a mile of Antarctic ice, and Ukraine was still going to blow.

As for EU membership, it is NOT necessarily a path to full blown Socialism, tyranny, or whatever. Estonia, with almost no resources but their own people, self-discipline, and starting from what was, economically speaking, a pile of post-Soviet rubble, has a quite nice little free market economy churning along. Their own President even says “the Euro’s are from Pluto”, but Estonia manages the relationship accordingly and effectively.

Poland is a somewhat different case, but is also doing pretty well. Ukrainian Ukrainians, being right next door, look over and say, hey, why can’t we do that? It’s sure a lot better than what we have.

Additionally, reading some of the Ukrainian forums and so on leads me to believe ordinary citizens with “nationalist” leanings not only despise the pervasive corruption, they understand the country will never do well until it is scoured out, and they understand that under Russian influence the corruption will never be reduced to tolerable levels. You and I can preach Ukraine should take an entirely independent course, and I’ve said that in the past, but the more I learn, the more I realize the country has simply been mugged so badly that only lousy choices are possible. Some sort of EU association may be the lesser evil for them.

Internally, an arrangement somewhat closer to how the U.S. was configured after the Civil War MIGHT prevent a civil war in Ukraine, IF Putin can somehow be convinced to leave Ukraine alone. Unfortunately, I believe he will exploit the situation. Putin’s bizarre (to us) but typically Russian attitude of “My dog is bigger than your dog” mixed with paranoia is quite telling.


49 posted on 04/11/2014 12:53:27 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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