IBM to combine Solar Thermal with Photovoltaic. Result. Power for Under 10 cents per KwH

thestreet ^ | 03/06/14 - 10:25 AM EST | Dana Blankenhorn

[ckilmer]

IBM and Your Changing Energy World BY Dana Blankenhorn |

NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- If I had a technology that could cut the cost of solar energy production to as little as 10 cents per kilowatt-hour (KwH), I'd be dropping everything to get it to market.

But I'm not IBM (IBM_).

IBM announced last week it will spend a $2.4 million grant from Switzerland studying a solar energy technology called High Concentration PhotoVoltaic Thermal (HCPVT).

HCPVT combines the concentrated solar energy system used in the newly opened Ivanpah plant in California, where mirrors direct sunlight to a central point and produce heat, with conventional photovoltaics, the technology that turns sunlight directly into electricity on a rooftop near you.

HCPVT uses a parabolic dish of mirror facets and a sun tracking system to concentrate power on a collection of liquid-cooled photovoltaic chips. The system collects electricity through the chips and heat through the chip-cooling system. IBM's press release says it can produce energy for less than 10 cents per KwH.

That's the same price as coal. The efficiency is nearly twice that of a recently-announced solar cell produced by the Fraunhofer Institute.

How excited is IBM by this? Not much. A spokesman wrote that IBM hopes to partner with other companies to make the chips, partner with construction firms to develop the systems, but that "compared with the key IBM growth areas of Cloud, Big Data, Analytics, Security and Mobile, this technology is not at the same scale."

[KarlInOhio]

Maybe 10 cents per watt, but certainly not per kWh

An IBM news release (http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/40912.wss) said that it is "levelized cost of energy, which includes the cost spread out over the total lifespan, so you have cost / (power * lifespan) which would give $/kWh rather than the usual cost/power.

[Neidermeyer]

Currently I see pricing in the 0.75 to $1.00 range per watt for pv panels.
************************************
8 hours/day * 365 days * 15 years useful life = 43,800 watt hours or 44kwh ,, about $0.0228 per kwh ,,, that’s assuming Georges $1/watt price is “all in” with inverters , batteries , installation and maintenance costs.

[Neidermeyer]

The flying boat in “golden gun” is almost certainly a model.. it looks very much like a “Lake” but without the cruciform tail. The flying car was likewise a model.

[wildbill]

I think the same procedure (mirrors to focus sunlight to central point for thermal production) was used in that big operation in Spain.

However, I think it was shut down recently as they couldn’t operate it at a rate that was comparable with other types of electric production without heavy government subsidies.

I had really thought this was the future, but maybe not quite yet.

[Svartalfiar]

Currently I see pricing in the 0.75 to $1.00 range per watt for pv panels. So something at 0.10 per watt would revolutionize this market.

You are mixing up two entirely different measurements here. A watt (or kilowatt) is a measurement of power (rate of energy use). A kWh is a measurement of energy.

The two prices are completely unrelated, at least how y'all are looking at them. I'll relate it to gasoline:

A kWh is like a gallon of gasoline. It's a set amount of energy you purchase.
A Watt is how fast you can fill your tank. Low wattage means you're using one gallon jugs to slowly fill it, while a high wattage would be going to the station and filling up in 2 minutes. You're paying for the amount of energy your panels can output at a given time.

By lowing the cost of solar to $.10/kWh, they are essentially making it price-competitive with coal/gas/normal electricity. The remaining issue would just be if they can produce enough of it at a time to actually be worth investing in.

[Go_Raiders]

It was a real plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_RC-3_Seabee

Cubby Broccoli used real aircraft wherever possible. You can see the crew putting out the burning plane after the scene was filmed at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-2085178/James-Bond-sets-Goldfingers-laser-scene-Moon-buggy-Diamonds-Are-Forever.html

My dad still owns and flies a Hershey Bar winged Piper Cherokee just like the ones Pussy Galore’s crew flew in Goldfinger.

http://impdb.org/images/thumb/c/cf/GFPiper_Cherokee.jpg/500px-GFPiper_Cherokee.jpg

[nascarnation]

a $2.4 million grant

I assume at IBM this covers the overhead, janitors and cost to heat a building. Now when do they get money for the actual work?

[Organic Panic]

And when it is night just shine great big spotlights powered by coal powerplants.

[ckilmer]

yeah the solar thermal plant in spain was shut down, I think.

Hard to say what the future will bring.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

HCPVT uses a parabolic dish of mirror facets and a sun tracking system to concentrate power on a collection of liquid-cooled photovoltaic chips

. . . and also to instantly fricassee any bird who flies near it . . .

[Georgia Girl 2]

Tesla is also making a lithium battery that is supposed to give significant longevity on solar systems.

[NorthMountain]

Maybe 10 cents per watt, but certainly not per kWh

Explain your objection.

"Electricity" delivered to the customer is metered and sold in units of energy (kWh), not power (W). "Electricity" cost in West Virginia (for example) is around $0.09/kWh, and is generated primarily by burning coal.

[Jeff F]

The flying boat in “golden gun” is almost certainly a model..

I think it is a very real Republic RC-3 Seabee. The flying AMC Matador, however, now that was a model. Britt Ekland (Mi6 agent Goodnight) - not a model but is Swedish, while Maud Adams was a model and Swedish!

[PapaBear3625]

One big problem with solar/thermal is that it's a big bird killer. If a bird flies in the path of the focused sunlight, it gets fried.

[Neidermeyer]

I remember the Piper (Cherokee 6 ?) formations from Goldfinger very clearly ,,, one of the most blatant “product placement” spots I’ve ever seen ,, the word “PIPER” had to be in 6” letters on each of them.

As long as we’ve moved on to Bond ,,, I desperately want to build my own “Little Nelly” autogyro,,, with VW or motorcycle power.

[Wuli]

If it actually can produce electricity at less than 10 cents/KwH, then:

something seems out of sync because this statement:

“How excited is IBM by this? Not much. A spokesman wrote that IBM hopes to partner with other companies to make the chips, partner with construction firms to develop the systems, but that “compared with the key IBM growth areas of Cloud, Big Data, Analytics, Security and Mobile, this technology is not at the same scale.”

which sounds like costs will be too, because if costs were not too high, you’d think there was a ton of profit in as well as a huge market for it, and if cost of production is really too high to be very profitable, then can it really give less than 10 cents/KwH performance

something seems out of sync

[Jeff F]

I’ll take the BD-5J from the opening sequence of Octopussy. The Siai-Marchetti SF-260TP turboprop fighter from Quantum of Solace is a close second.

[ckilmer]

yeah agree. something else is going on. If IBM could do what the article says it can do —then the profit from it would be huge. and not a trifling as IBM seems to suggest.

It may just be that whatever they have is still very much a sketch and nothing more. which is what a lot of scientific announcements are. they don’t have much but they’re looking for more funding.