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... Whether the marriage between the (Catholic) Church and the (American) State can be rescued, or whether a divorce is in the offing, depends in large part on the outcome of this burgeoning debate about which most Americans are wholly unaware, but to which those with interests in the fate of the imperial Republic should to be paying attention. ---
1 posted on 02/06/2014 9:15:58 AM PST by cornelis
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To: NYer; Salvation

FYI


2 posted on 02/06/2014 9:17:00 AM PST by cornelis
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To: cornelis

The leadership of the Catholic church has always been conservative on social issues, yet VERY liberal on economic policy. I am sick and tired of hearing about “social justice” in Church. Wish the Church would avoid politics altogether.


3 posted on 02/06/2014 9:22:29 AM PST by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: cornelis

The real battle is between the Constitution and a Christian forefather people. The Constitution being interpreted that gay marriage is a constitutional right, that freedom overrules religion, sets them on collision.


4 posted on 02/06/2014 9:23:51 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: cornelis

An interesting and well reasoned article with a lot of inside baseball, which will undoubtedly be reduced to a juvenile exchange of knee-jerk cliches and a Religion Forum cat fight.


5 posted on 02/06/2014 9:29:42 AM PST by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: cornelis

“...We have Nancy Pelosi and Andrew Cuomo representing the Left...”

Yea, well any ole wolf can dress itself in sheep’s clothing and call itself a sheep.


6 posted on 02/06/2014 9:31:07 AM PST by Repent and Believe (Promote good. Tolerate the harmless. Let evil be crushed.)
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To: cornelis

Sam Brownback.. is he the supposed pro-life guy that loves Sebelius so much?


7 posted on 02/06/2014 9:32:19 AM PST by MNDude
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To: cornelis

I find it highly ironic that the country which HOSTS the official chair of the Roman Church (I know, Vatican City is it’s own state, but that’s just irrelevant nominalism) has swerved so violently Left, both economically and socially, over the decades. You’d think that the ambient influence, and the ubiquitous presence of self-identifying adherents, would be enough to temper the country towards at least a reverent respect for that church’s teaching.

Doesn’t say a lot for Roman Catholicism.


8 posted on 02/06/2014 9:34:09 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: cornelis

I had read both from Murray and MacIntyre when I was in the seminary. I am more of a philospher, and MacIntyre makes more sense to me because his case is based on the philosphy of St. Thomas Aquinas. It has totally different presuppositions from Murray, who is operating from the Modern Liberal Individualism that was around at the time of the Founding Fathers. This is also why Pope Francis is confusing to Conservatives and Progressives alike here in the US. Francis is operating from a 13th century philosophy, and has different underlying assumptions than any of our current batch of political philosophers and commentators. They are trying to fit Francis into philosophical boxes that do not fit him. The Pope makes perfect, coherent sense to us Thomists.

This fight is local only to the US Catholicism. Worldwide, the three way fight in moral theology between Neo-Thomists, German Jesuits under Karl Rahner, and the French Jesuits pushing Patristic studies, will have a much more lasting effect on Catholicism.


14 posted on 02/06/2014 11:02:21 AM PST by Seraphicaviary (St. Michael is gearing up. The angels are on the ready line.)
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To: cornelis

After reading the complete article at the site, I think Saul Alinsky saw his opening int eh radical Catholics group, the ones who think the American founding was a mistake. Or, he was able to drive that theory into their psyches. Obama’s paster,Jeremiah Wright, seems to be of their ilk.

Interesting article. Being raised Baptist, I have come to love the Catholic faith. I’d convert, but it would be chaotic to other family members, and it would not change my state of salvation. I do love Touchstone Magazine and have wanted to order the sister magazine, First Things. I have learned much!


16 posted on 02/06/2014 1:23:32 PM PST by Shery (in APO Land)
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