Posted on 01/25/2014 6:32:57 PM PST by gooblah
Algebra II is a better test for academic aptitude than the SAT. But the course taught in the ‘30s included material no longer included. Now even this has been diluted and still too many kids—of course—cannot get past.
The purpose was to weed out students who lacked the ability to master a rigorous college exam. Before the testing industry took hold, good colleges looked hard at what math you took.
Back when I was in high school or for that matter all the way back to the 1960's elementary schools were set up to allow book worms or gifted to take more advanced classes and there was basics for others. Math passed me by at about the seventh grade. My reading ability in school was not that great. Don't get me wrong. I can likely read on a high school level it was my ability to read and focus that was the issue. No discipline, no forcing, no threatening with a ruler, could change that fact.
Yet I could walk into one of the most advanced telecommunications equipment office of that era and learn how to large floors of electrical mechanical switching worked and troubleshoot. It was my dads office where he worked. He was a high school drop out in the mid 1940's his junior year. He had the gift for Geometry so much so he was sent to Fire Control School in the Navy.
The whole idea of school is bassackwards to what it should be. Rather than in high school acknowledging strengths, interest, and talent, the focus is on Money for Test Scores and mandatory classes for such. Kids are learning how to take text but not as such practical knowledge.
Education can help you and it can also mean little. One guy on the ship was a washout of the nuclear propulsion program. He didn't finish the school. He was book smart likely on a genius level in some aspects. He was also one of the most impulsive and reckless persons I ever met with zero common sense. Another guy who had also flunked Nuke school did good in the shop and went on later to become a Math Professor.
It took me thirteen years to get from first grade to graduation day. Another five more would not have helped the final outcome. All things considered I put what I have retained education and experience wise well above the level of what is being turned out in advanced courses focused schools of today.
I didn't end up as a janitor I ended up as a three trade trained maintenance mechanic working in a health care facility. I could take a 50 hp 3 phase motor and wire it up even as far as a complex hook up change over from a six wire motor controller to where same controller would operate a three wire motor. IOW phase identification of all six conductors and getting the six conductors correctly down to three the motor required. Something my boss said would not work. LOL. The contractor he called got there just as I was finishing up and said yeap that's what we would have done.
Not all kids have the same ability to achieve the same levels in school and it is fact including medical fact in a lot of cases. That doesn't mean the kid is slow, stupid, or not teachable. The same focus aimed at advanced classes which hey I'm all for those having "Gift" for such should be given to those not so gifted is what I am saying. That part was almost worked out until schools became test focused rather than learning and teaching focused.
We need doctors and engineers. We also need electricians, mechanics, truck drivers, etc. To say each needs the same curriculum or level on a even high school courses is insane.
Education book wise doesn't always equal proficiency practical wise. A few years back a surveyor was marking out a high voltage power line across my property. I looked at his stakes marking the route. I said hey the place you are needing to intersect with is off {pointing about 45 degrees another direction} that way. He had a USGS map on him he was going by. I didn't but I was right.
I agree with everything you say and more. I was a high school drop out at age 16. That was back in the late 60’s, not uncommon for small town USA. At that time I had no idea what a pipe fitter’s duties were, or an instrument tech, a millwright, boilermaker, or any other number of trades. I have succeeded in all those in my lifetime. Kids today need to have more info as to what kind of jobs are out there and the skills needed to perform them. I know welders that make $30 plus an hour that can hardly read or wright,but they can weld all day long and not get a reject.
I graduated high school. By mid fall I had enlisted. When I got to the ship several high school classmates were already there a year or two. LOL.
Writing proofs is the closest thing to any traditional highly formal logic education that HS students will get... fundamental.
It would be like telling engineering majors they don’t need Statics or Dynamics.
If college grads realized that they could start at $60K+ in a trade, they’d tear their eyes out. They could have started right out of HS, making, not spending money. The trades are an awesome source of success, but liberals have taken the “cess” out of it.
They’ve poisoned a generation against working with their hands.
Not in this case. A real Algebra 2 course takes intelligence and effort. Mandating that everyone take Algebra 2 has only served to slow down the classes for capable students and to spread the math teacher pool too thin.
It's much better to have a serious Algebra 1 and Geometry be required, and then move those students who lack the ability or interest into job skill courses, or into options that prepare them for life.
OK, that makes sense. Some Alg. 2 curriculum include geometry, so we’re not talking the same thing. Your point is very valid. What we really need is a free market in education... and everything else.
Those that do shortchange Geometry, which is important for construction skills, anything with maps, and developing logical thinking. From my experience with students, those that have an excellent foundation in a year each of Algebra 1 and Geometry have enough math to get through life unless they're pursuing college educations that require more.
What everyone would benefit from is a year of Economics and personal finance.
Algebra II is rigorous?
Calculus before Trigonometry?
They don’t teach basic econ and personal finance anymore?
Not at any school I've encountered.
I graduated high school 57 years ago. In a moderately successful life in business I have never encountered a problem in the real world that required advanced algebra.
On the other hand, typing has been useful and as a homeowner I might’ve used advanced shop classes in subjects like plumbing, concrete laying, basic carpentry, roofing, dry wall, etc.
Trying to force kids into academic programs that don’t fit their personality/aptitude is ridiculous. One size doesn’t fit all.
And lasers!
I took Algebra 2 because I had to... left it where I found it and haven’t missed it!
I agree that the one-size-fits-all model of education doesn’t work for a lot of kids. It’s also frustrating for a lot of teachers. There is a lot of pretending going on in education these days, and it leads to a lot of waste. Like many of us, you’re fortunate to have been in school at a time when common sense was more prevalent.
This is what Charles Murray has to say about it:
( Please insert “algebra and calculus” in all the places he writes B.A.)
” One of your colleagues submits this proposal:”
“First, we will set up a single goal to represent educational success, which will take four years ( algebra and calculus) to achieve no matter what is being taught. We will attach an economic reward to it that seldom has anything to do with what has been learned. We will urge large numbers of people who do not possess adequate ability to try to achieve the goal, wait until they have spent a lot of time and money, and then deny it to them. We will stigmatize everyone who doesn't meet the goal. We will call the goal a “BA.” ( high school diploma that includes algebra and calculus.)
“You would conclude that your colleague was cruel, not to say insane. But that's the system we have in place.”
But...Charles Murray has a good idea! Certifiable examinations in specific subjects. Although he is specifically addressing college attendance, there is no reason these certification exams couldn't start with 1st grade subjects. We should completely scrap the high school diploma and go for certification exams that demonstrate specifically what a person knows.
Here is his essay:
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB121858688764535107
However...I do agree with you about Calculus for **one** set of people: GOVERNMENT TEACHERS! Yes, I know most government teachers do not need calculus, but it would help assure that minimal bright people are in our nation's government schools.
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