You nailed them... both phonies.
Better yet, on Paul Ryan I started calling him a phony here 3 years ago early 2011 when he came out with that first ‘plan’, and he was really popular HERE back then.
In fact there was a mini- Paul Ryan revival here about a year ago. I got cursed at (well almost) again then for my Ryan comments.
When he talks I hear :"BLA-BLA-BLA", he never says anything the least bit thoughtful.