[TigersEye]

I'm talking about their interest in being part of the civilized world not how far they had come politically at the time. There is no such thing in Islam. Your view of the world is very divorced from reality. Your idea of machoism is simply a narcissistic sociopathy. It is not a manly thing to do to commit tens of thousands of lives to a certain failure.

[what's up]

The Japanese were not civilized...neither were the Germans. They were fascist monsters on the road toward darkness and destruction, not enlightenment.