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To: george76

I have seen working horses in horrible condition

If they are well cared for and treated appropriately that is one thing

But if not, shut them down


3 posted on 01/04/2014 8:12:18 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: yldstrk

I can’t speak for NYC, but I rode a carriage once in Charleston, SC. .

Highly regulated by the State. They can only work a few hours a day and get pampered like you wouldn’t believe. They are constantly monitored by State officials, and each individual ride must stop by a State-run checkpoint to log the name of the animals and then randomly draw a route they will travel.

I can only assume NY would be as tough, if not tougher on the operations

If one leaves a dropping, the horseman makes a call, and within minutes, a crew arrives to clean up the mess.

Lots of jobs will be lost, but the Mayors buds will get a shot at the prime Real Estate that the carriage houses and stables now sit on.


13 posted on 01/04/2014 8:23:17 AM PST by digger48
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To: yldstrk

Yea right, The owner is gonna abuse the animal that makes his paycheck every day, that makes a lot of sense.


23 posted on 01/04/2014 8:31:23 AM PST by ABN 505
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To: yldstrk
You didn't bother to read the source article, did you? NYC's carriage trade is highly regulated and supervised, and its horses receive excellent care to include plenty of daily and weekly rest and even pasture vacation.

Horses are expensive to keep alive, safe and healthy, and they justify that expense when they are allowed to work. But when the opportunity to work is prohibited, the unintended consequences for most are neglect and ultimately slaughter.

59 posted on 01/04/2014 9:52:32 AM PST by Always A Marine
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To: yldstrk
I have seen working horses in horrible condition If they are well cared for and treated appropriately that is one thing But if not, shut them down

They are treated very well.

Rules of the City of New York - Title 24 Department of Health and Mental Hygiene - CHAPTER 4 - HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELL BEING OF RENTAL HORSES

67 posted on 01/04/2014 10:19:58 AM PST by FreeReign
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To: yldstrk
I like horses and I like Central Park and I like horses in Central Park.

Central Park, a man-made park, has lakes and streams and woodlands and rambles and meadows. Its separate circulation systems were specifically designed as carriage drives, equestrian paths and pedestrian walkways. It is one of the most inspiring combinations of architecture, landscape design and urban planning to be found anywhere on the face of the earth. It is the heart of New York City. There is no comparable urban green space to be found anywhere.

I like the idea that a city kid can go to the middle of Manhattan and see and touch a horse. People and horses like each other and have worked together for ages. People who know and spend time with horses know it’s not inhumane to make them draw carriages. That’s what draft horses were born to do. They have massive strength, yet are so gentle that even children can lead stallions.

The horses of Central Park are the last of the many wonderful working horses which actually built our country. The horses of yesterday did all the work cars and trucks do now. They died in the streets from overwork and were left where they dropped. It should be out of respect of the legacy they left that those remaining have a place of honor with people who understand, love and have formed a bond with them. These magnificent draft horses are our Living History ... our Heritage. And a horse-drawn carriage ride through Central Park is a magical experience and a beloved attraction for both residents and visitors to the city.

But NYCLASS, an animal rights organization, wants to end this 150-year tradition. They claim that it is inhumane and cruel to the horses… that the horses are abused and are sooo last century.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The horses are very well taken care of and have a very good life. The horse-carriage industry faces some of the most rigorous regulations of any industry in the city. And the horses of Central Park are the most monitored and scrutinized horses on the planet earth. Separate city agencies monitor their operations, as does the ASPCA. The horses have mandatory work hours, mandatory vacation on pasture, and cannot work when the temperature is above 89 or below 18 or if it is raining or snowing. As long as the relationship between horse and driver is built out of love and respect, both benefit. In the past 30 years there have only been three traffic related horse fatalities. There is no compelling data to support ending the industry and the livelihood of those in it.

To suggest that the ASPCA, the Department of Health, Consumer Affairs, DEP, Parks Department Mounted Unit, NYPD, NYPD’s Mounted Unit, and the Mayor’s office are all lax and/or corrupt is an injustice to those agencies and the people serving in them. They inspect and regulate the carriage horses on a daily basis, to the point of harassment. If only daycare centers, schools, nursing homes, and hospitals were so well monitored!

The horses are seen by vets, farriers and equine dentists several times a year. Horses are not like lapdogs or cats … they like working, just like service dogs and sheep dogs do. It is not cruel to hitch a horse to a carriage and drive it at a leisurely pace around Central Park. Being stuck in a stall is no fun and hard on the horse. Horses that don’t have jobs often have psychological issues … they are meant to be more than eye candy. Working horses thrive on human attention and interaction and the carriage horses get tons of both; from passengers and passers-by, but most importantly, from their drivers and owners, who spend all day, everyday with them.

I don’t see the animal rights activists mouthing off about NYPD and Park Ranger horses that are housed in standing stalls. I don’t see them mouthing off about riding schools or top class competition horses. If humaneness is their chief concern, it would make more sense to shut down racetracks and outlaw thoroughbred racing. I'd hate to see that too, but it does make more sense.

If people want to see ‘animal abuse’ they should see how horses live in the wild. A wild horse would beg to live in a nice box stall, away from predators, with all the food he can eat and under cover from the weather. And thousands of horses waste their lives away in pastures, starving because no one cares enough to feed them. The owners figure the horses have grass so they'll be fine. Wouldn’t it be better if they had a job and be cared for, instead of starving and potentially being sent to slaughter? The 100,000 American horses sent to horrific slaughter in Canada and (much worse) in Mexico each year would be delighted to have a safe home and a job pulling a carriage in New York.


Note: the little horses are used in therapy programs for disabled children.

It would cost between $400-500 thousand A YEAR to care for the 200+ horses removed from the streets. Rather than do that, the small business owners involved will sell them. No, they are not going to rich, pre-teen girls in the Hamptons. They will be sold to the horse markets where they will be slaughtered and made into pet food.

But in reality, this has NOTHING to do with the animals’ welfare – it’s all about money and real estate. Manhattan real estate is very valuable and developers have their eyes on the redevelopment of the west side. NYCLASS was founded by a real estate developer who wants the land the horse stables currently occupy for his Hudson Yards/Hell’s Kitchen real estate development project.

The anti-Horse Carriage group has eloquent speakers on their side and the new mayor in their pocket. In light of the more than $1.5 million NYCLASS spent on getting di Blasio elected, is it any surprise he wants to return this political favor first? It’s always good to see politicians tackling the pet projects of special interest groups that made significant campaign contributions on their first day in office. It’s worth noting that NYCLASS also poured hundreds-of-thousands of dollars into an effort promoting candidates in eight City Council races … the very same City Council that will be voting on this issue.

The new mayor campaigned with the promise of jobs for New Yorkers. Now he wants to ban the carriage horses ... putting horses, drivers, stable custodians, and support staff out of work. He's also sending any movie or television production company elsewhere if they want to use a horse and carriage in their production. More jobs lost, and less dollars flowing into NYC. It doesn't make economic sense for the city.

NYCLASS animal activists don't care about the reality of what happens to the horses. They chant and hold up signs for the cameras but they have no involvement in the care or rescue of horses. These gallant creatures will likely be slaughtered when the businesses close down.

Again, this is not about cruelty to horses … it’s all about money and real estate. Many cities, New York included, owe their existence to the noble horse drawn vehicle. How quickly this contribution is being forgotten. There should be a place here for generations to see how things moved before the pollution spewing internal combustion engine took over. But welcome to modern-day America, where activists buy elections and then get to dictate to the rest of us.

Organizations in league with NYCLASS include:
ASPCA - donated over $450,000 between 2008-2011 to NYCLASS
ED SAYRES - CEO of the ASPCA and co-founder and co-president of NYCLASS
PETA - partner organization
HSUS - partner organization
MAYORS ALLIANCE FOR NYC ANIMALS - Jane Hoffman, Executive Director. She is also the Treasurer of NYCLASS
ANIMAL HAVEN - Archie Gottesman, President of the Board of Directors and Owner of Edison Properties
STEVE NISLICK - co-president and co-founder of NYCLASS and CEO of Edison Properties (parent company of Edison ParkFast and Manhattan Mini Storage)
MANHATTAN MINI STORAGE - funded PETA’s anti-carriage-horse campaign featuring Lea Michele

Ban horse drawn carriages? That would be losing part of the soul of New York City!

FYI: Statement by Blue Star Equiculture,a sanctuary for retired and homeless draft horses.

And for your viewing pleasure: Remember who you are …

88 posted on 01/05/2014 8:10:21 PM PST by Alice in Wonderland
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