That’s one way to look at it, ultimate betrayal is another.
God says he will never desert us, but the story tells another tale.
So, is the story a parable, or a historical event?
Of interest is the fact that no one is certain who wrote the book of Job.
One of the mysteries of existence is the nature of time. Time is one of the many boxes in which human kind attempts to put God. We are so material and so linear the difficulty to imagine One unconstrained by Time/space is overwhelming. Only those who have thought long and deeply about such things like learned philosophers and theoretical physicists have even scratched the surface of understanding. It may be that time is simply a construct of humanity to organize an orderly progression of events so that our limitations can ascribe meaning to existence. Perhaps for God all things exist/occur simultaneously. His statement “ a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day” may give insight into this. Also the many biblical statements attributing future completed events as if they were currently happening or had already happened. “For unto us a Son IS born...” “Beloved NOW are we the Sons of God but it does not yet appear what we SHALL be...” There is an order of magnitude in difference between God and humankind that is greater than that between an ameoba and a human. While we can glimpse tiny flashes of understanding and can grow in our awarenesses to believe we have the capacity to understand His nature makes for a limited God indeed.
Satan has not yet been cast out of Heaven. This will be done by Michael the archangel at the same time the antichrist is revealed when he defiles the yet-to-be-built third temple.
Satan currently has access to Heaven in order to accuse God’s saints (i.e. believers) before the throne of God. See Revelation 12.
Christ is continuously interceding on behlalf of His saints (i.e. believers). See Romans 8:34.
“It is this passage that led Mormons to teach that Jesus and Satan started out as brothers. We do know that Lucifer/Satan was the most senior of the Angels, with more seniority than Arch-Angels Gabriel and Michael. He was effectively Number 3 in heaven after God and Jesus.”
Wrong. The Devil and Jesus are not on the same level. The Devil is a created finite being. Jesus is the Son of God, diety, Creator of all things (including the Devil).
The Creator is too big to be contained by the entire universe. He is aware of the smallest detail, such as the number of hairs on our head, and whenever a single bird falls to the ground. He knows when, where and what type of bird it was. But He also is fully aware and in control of the largest things in the universe. He has names for every star and planet and other heavenly body.
Satan thought he could run the universe and be God, and do a better or equal job as God. To this, God just laughs. Satan cannot even count the number of stars in heaven. If he could, God said He would break His promise to preserve and protect Israel. If Satan could even just count them, God could verify the number because He knows the number and the unique name and purpose He has given to each one.
Satan cannot even run one tiny little speck in the universe called Earth. He is currently “the god of this world”, and is doing a very poor job of it. There are rules that must be followed. And, yes, Satan does report to God about what he is doing on Earth.
Matthew 10:29-30
“Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”
Psalm 147:4
“He counts the number of the stars; He calls them all by name.”
Genesis 22:17
“blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.”
Jeremiah 31:35-37
“Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The Lord of hosts is His name): ‘If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the Lord, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.’ Thus says the Lord: ‘If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the Lord.’ “
Hebrews 11:12
“Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude—innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore.”
2 Corinthians 4:4
“whose minds the god of this world has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.”
John 16:33
“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Lucifer (Satan)was the highest angel in heaven. He had no part of the Godhead. God is three persons in one, Farher, Son, Holy Spirit.
Lucifer was in charge of the angels under the direction of God.
Satan did and does go to heaven for the purpose of accusing the Saints. The saints are those who belong to God through His Son Christ Jesus.
This was the error of Balaam, for he did ot believe God could count a sinner righteous, not knowing about faith in Gods promised one.
This is the plan of God and works for those looking forward to the cross (as Job did) or looking back as we do today. The Bible is a one themed book, It is all about Gods promised Son, The Lord Christ Jesus.
Sure...And you don't have to be a bible expert...However you DO have to read (or hear) the bible...
There's a big difference between seeing heaven in front of the Judge and living there as a child of God...
Not to me it doesn’t. It sounds like the angels were reporting on their activities and this satan had been making accusations about humans. Hence the question, “Have you considered my servant Job?”.
Revelation describes Satan being tossed out of heaven and barred from access but Satan is never said to be in hell in the Scriptures.
Here are 2 sites about the history of Satan.
http://www.markbeast.com/satan/history-of-satan.htm
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/made_satan
BTTT
It doesn't state that they were in heaven. The "sons of God" is referred to as holy men meeting together. We know Satan was in the Garden, roams around the earth, tempted Christ, etc. It is most likely the Jewish religious leaders of the time were meeting and Satan attended. Whether God was there physically or spiritually is unclear except that He addressed the situation.
This is what Matthew Henry has to say about the issue:
I’m not sure there is such a thing as a ‘bible expert’ as we can learn something new every time we open it, but I’ll share what I believe,
The book of Job is about evidencing what faith is (to us), despite how everything and everyone in this world would have you believe something natural over what the spirit reveals, trust him always and he will bring you in,
As to Satan being able to stand in Heaven, yes, God gave Adam legal authority over the Earth, who in turn gave that authority to Satan. When the Earth or those in it are being discussed, Satan can stand and accuse those operating in his dominion (Christians)
Jesus gave his bride authority to bind ‘principalities and powers’ on this Earth, (though how many and how often any claim this authority is questionable) notwithstanding, Satan has legitimate authority on this physical Earth until the time of the end, and (I believe) until three very specific conditions are met and then violated by the nations under Satan’s influence,
1 - a - Israel restored, b - Jerusalem restored, together providing the two conditions in Daniel Chapter 9 to count the time (determined) 70 weeks or 490 years. 434 years were counted at the cross, 49 years were accepted by Jesus but rejected by Israel and instead brought the Gospel to us, it (and he) is the Jubilee, leaving 49 years (a Jubilee) and then the final seven years remaining which (today) we all hear so much about called ‘the tribulation’ (434 + 49 + 7 = 490 years)
2 - A Jubilee is acknowledged in Heaven following the conditions being met, (that is) met precisely per Leviticus Chapter 25: “when you come into the land that I shall give you.. “ then count seven times seven years (49 years) and only our Father in Heaven can know when this is acceptable,
3 - The covenant is broken, hindered, encumbered in some manner between this world and a restored Israel via an agreement, that is Israel is divided, Jerusalem is divided or both, the restoration is being undone, Satan is seeking to change the times and seasons, to extend his ownership outside the limiting Holy mechanisms of the Laws and Ordinances enacted on the Earth, the very ones which provided for the coming of the Messiah and the punitive measures of the transgression, and then the second restoration itself,
Its the attempted undoing of that authority, the breaking of the ‘Everlasting Covenant’ (see Isaiah Chapter 24) that brings the time of the end, this is what Jesus called the ‘Great Tribulation’ and it comes (I believe) as whats being adjudicated beginning in Revelation Chapter 4, where the “court will sit” (see also Daniel Chapter 7) and where Jesus takes the scroll (title deed) from the right hand of the Father. He assumes legal ownership over the Earth,
Jesus as the second Adam, returning bodily when the fullness of time is reached (a Jubilee) coming again as the only one able to redeem from the rightful owner (God) the whole of creation, granted under the Law as a Kinsman of Adam (a man) see the Book of Ruth, Jesus is our Boaz, the Church is the Bride and Noami is Israel,
Jesus is taking authority using the very Laws and Ordinances which were implemented upon the physical Earth which allowed him to come in a Holy manner (in the flesh) then be rejected by Israel (flesh), that purchased the gentiles into the Kingdom of Heaven (Spirit) and then ultimately providing the same mechanism to redeem the physical creation during the restoration of all things, (the Jubilee)
Peter speaks of Jesus:
“Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” Acts 3:21 (a Jubilee)
“For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.” Isaiah 63:4 (a Jubilee)
Satan has access to Heaven until he attempts to break that restoration, which is tied to the physical land as much as it is to the people (Israel) following the (second) restoration under the very same Law that took them away as with a flood in 70 AD,
Israel at the time of the end will make a covenant with death, Satan is a liar and usurper, the Great Tribulation begins on the Earth soon after,
“And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; . .” Isaiah 28:18
At this time the war in Heaven begins and Satan is thrown out (forever) by the Archangel Michael,
“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceive the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: “
“for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, “
“which accused them before our God day and night.”
“Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” Revelation 12:7-12
Through these vignettes we learn that God prizes Powerful Humor and that He misses Satan's abilities in this regard. All and sundry are surprised at God's assertion that Satan is "as funny as Moses" (no one is as funny as Moses) Satan misses the Realms of Bliss and is horrified at the class of person with which he has damned himself to eternity ("they're stupid and mean and OBSESSED with poopoo and peepee and they're NOT funny!"). God misses Satan and wants him back in Heaven. Satan knows this and entreats Him. God stipulates that Jesus must testify for him-his name must be in The Book. Satan harangues Jesus incessantly but Jesus just laughs at him, occasionally getting angry and banishing him to his hell with a violence that we don't often associate with the Prince of Peace. During a latter harangue Jesus seems to be softening, eyeing Satan intently, then proposing that there may be a way... Satan is eager and Jesus proposes: "Do 5000 years...of life on the earth!". "5000 years of doing My Will, of preaching the Gospel in the face of the hellstorm that you yourself have led". "5000 thankless years of deathless flesh without so much as one tiny backslide." Jesus can't forget the souls Satan beguiled away from Him and thinks He has found a way to torment the slightly, slightly, ever so slightly shallow Satan. Along the way Moses comes by and happens to riff on the 40 years. To my mind it is astonishing that Satan could possibly be that funny...
Early Judaism did not have an “evil” force (i.e. the “devil”) that struggled against God, primarily because in it God was seen as opposed by the other gods of the heathens surrounding the Israelites (the Mosaic admonition to have “no other gods” before him was most likely a literal statement. Many parts of the Old Testament read like the other gods are both real and in conflict with the God of Israel). As such, Satan (literally “the accuser”) in the Old Testament was God’s attorney general, the subordinate power tasked with bringing the transgressions of God’s people to his attention.
By the time of late antiquity, the Hebrews of Israel had been exposed to various Eastern/Persian philosophies (through the Roman occupation) that gained popularity in the hellenistic world previously. These philosophies gave rise to religions of dualism (culminating in Manicheism shortly after Christ), and the Jews of Jesus’ time had been heavily influenced by these ideas. Between the time of the OT’s writing and the time of the New Testament, Satan had evolved from a servant of God into a dualistic opponent (but without the equal power that most dualistic or Manichean deities have). So the Satan of the New Testament is not easily reconciled with the story of Job.
The problem is that the Bible exists to teach wisdom and God’s will, and modern readers expect it to be a logical narrative like a history text-book. This leads to various intellectual gymnastics to make various parts of a document written over millennia fit seamlessly (to our eyes), rather than an appreciation of Job as God’s promise to never desert those who obey and love him.
This is against the King of Tyrus, but as you read, you see this is really looking past Tyre to someone else.
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Then there is this earlier prophecy:
1 Kings 22
King James Version (KJV)
17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the Lord said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.
18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
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