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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA; 1010RD
your new definition includes: "or a persistent increase in the purchasing power of money."

LOL --I forget the name of the economic principle where every negative one place is a positive elsewhere (mass death = soaring undertaker profits).  Just the same, we really need to say this is either "our" definition because it's the "only" definition.  Your saying it's "my" definition suggests that you've got one.  Do you?

"The good times toward the end of the 19th century, which 1010RD alluded to... ...overall prices dropped by about half." ...   ...the website you pointed to proves my statement...

Ah, you were right about the prices dropping  by half --I'd glanced at the inflation from 1850-1899 but we do in fact see a 50% drop in the 1865 to 1899 segment.  What we're still missing though is the "good times" part.  The '65 - '99 block was an era mostly in economic contraction (from US Business Cycle Expansions and Contractions) while since 1899 there were three times as many months of expansion than contraction months.  This is the kind of correlation that give economists the "Deflation = contraction & Inflation = expansion" approach that's at odds with your "deflation is not necessarily a bad thing".

a huge bubble began inflating after the fed was created, and famously burst in 1929 -- leading to the Great Depression.

Some say the Fed caused the depression and others say the FOMC caused the recovery.

I don't recall taking a position one way or another regarding the Fed

Life does go on and we do need to work to feed our families.  So while others think about making up their minds the rest of us can go with the Fed till we find something better.

123 posted on 10/30/2013 6:58:35 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama; 1010RD
"Just the same, we really need to say this is either "our" definition because it's the "only" definition. Your saying it's "my" definition suggests that you've got one. Do you?"

I've already told you "my" definition several times. Here's an excerpt from #118 above: "Let me offer my preferred definition first: Deflation = a state of falling prices." You might prefer: "Deflation is a persistent fall in the general price level of goods and services." It's a "clean" definition, without all of the assumptions and speculation about the causes and possible effects of falling prices built in.

I'm fully aware that it's become common for deflation to be defined, with the built-in negative connotations. And, yes, our language continually evolves; so no one can say the definitions you prefer are "wrong". However, I will say that they aren't helpful. If deflation is "bad" by definition then deflation is bad. No one can argue with that. (Although, the "dismal science" is already chock-a-block with words that mean bad things -- such as "depression".) If we're discussing "X", where "X" is a "persistent fall in the general price level of goods or services"; then we can discuss whether "X" is always a bad thing, or whether it can also be a good thing -- depending on other factors. I hold to the latter view.

"What we're still missing though is the "good times" part. The '65 - '99 block was an era mostly in economic contraction (from US Business Cycle Expansions and Contractions) while since 1899 there were three times as many months of expansion than contraction months."

I had considered preempting the need for that comment, by posting a follow-up to my own post -- but I thought that might be just too much for a forum such as this. Anyhow, you're right as far as you go. There was a lot of turmoil then (to begin with, the Civil War had just ended). A whole lot of stuff was going on. And there were recessions, panics, and depressions (I have never said that deflation always equals good times. As you've noted yourself; I said: "deflation is not necessarily a bad thing". See the difference?). What you're missing is that, overall, there was an incredible increase in real wealth, and real purchasing power, during that time. This increase in real wealth resulted from incredible gains in productivity (mostly due to railways). The increase in productivity also lead to lower prices (i.e. deflation).

Ever since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution (at least), the "western world" has experienced previously unimaginable increases in productivity, growth in real wealth, increase in spending power, decrease in prices -- all facets of the same gem. The Tech revolution kicked things up by several notches. Our economic system has adjusted to those changes fitfully, more often than smoothly. When our money supply, credit, etc. don't adjust well enough to falling prices (deflation) we get deflationary gaps, deflationary spirals, that have led to depressions. We have shorter-period business cycles, where we experience relatively frequent inventory-clearing recessions. As you yourself point out, we're getting better at smoothing out those bumps on the road to prosperity.
124 posted on 10/30/2013 1:00:03 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: expat_panama
The Weimar Republic inflation story:

Few people understood what had happened. Even today, three generations later, much of it sounds pretty incredible.

Take for example the family that sold its house to emigrate to America. On arrival at the port of Hamburg, they found that the money wasn't enough to pay for their crossing -- in fact, it didn't even pay for their tickets back home. Then there was the man who drank two cups of coffee at 5,000 marks each, only to be presented with a bill for 14,000. When he asked why this was he was told he should have ordered the coffees at the same time because the price had gone up in between. And then there's the story about the couple that took a few hundred million marks to the theater box office hoping to see a show, but discovered it wasn't nearly enough. Tickets were now a billion marks each.

129 posted on 11/11/2013 3:28:17 PM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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