[Alamo-Girl]

Bringing complaints of "heresy" into it appears to simply be an attempt to dictate what theological knowlege is allowed, and by extension what empirical evidence may or may not be admitted.

Whoa!

You are accusing me of saying things I have not said and holding positions I do not hold.

In the first place, to accuse someone of a heresy, he and I must first have, at some time, shared the same dogma. I have no clue what dogma you embrace and therefore no ground to accuse you of heresy.

In the second place, if I had been asked about God and the scientific method, I would have said:

Man is not the measure of God.

It is a logical absurdity to think that an autonomous creature inhabiting creation can remove himself outside of it to observe all that creation is, all at once, much less deign to use those very creature-relative measures to examine the Creator of it all ex nihilo!

Jeepers...

Everything that man uses as a measure - space, time, autonomy, energy, inertia, qualia, information et al - are parts of the creation itself and not properties of, much less restrictions on, the Creator of them!

That is in fact my big complaint against the abusers of science, the ones who do philosophy/theology under the color of science. They aver that anything which they cannot physically observe and measure therefore cannot exist, i.e. is a superstition of a dim or weak mind. These are not true atheists, the ones who choose not to believe but don't mind if you do. They are in fact anti-God and particularly anti-Christ activists and abusers of science - spineless miscreants at that since they carefully avoid making the same sweeping condemnations of Islamicists.

[tacticalogic]

You are accusing me of saying things I have not said and holding positions I do not hold.

I didn't mean to imply that you did. It was a reference back to, and an attempt to put it into the context of the original article and subject that started the thread.

Apologies for any misunderstanding.

[spirited irish]

Bringing complaints of “heresy” into it appears to simply be an attempt to dictate what theological knowlege is allowed, and by extension what empirical evidence may or may not be admitted.

Spirited: Fyodor Dostoevsky said that with the death of Jehovah, the God of Revelation, all things will be possible.

Men will turn to the creation of their own gods as they’ve done from antiquity, and speaking through their gods will demand the rejection, persecution and burial of anyone who blasphemes against them (their gods) with unbearably hateful words such as heresy.

[betty boop]

It is a logical absurdity to think that an autonomous creature inhabiting creation can remove himself outside of it to observe all that creation is, all at once, much less deign to use those very creature-relative measures to examine the Creator of it all ex nihilo!

It is amazing to me how difficult this point is for some people to grasp.

We do not stand on some Archimedean point "outside" the universe so as to be able to view it all at once in its spatiotemporal entirety. We are parts of what we observe, as well as participants in what we observe.

Given this limit, in no way can man be the measure of God — for he is not even the "measure" of the Universe.

JMHO FWIW

Thank you so very much, dearest sister in Christ, for your most illuminating essay/post!