Posted on 09/19/2013 2:46:04 PM PDT by SkyPilot
VATICAN CITY Pope Francis has warned that the Catholic Church's moral structure might "fall like a house of cards" if it doesn't balance its divisive rules about abortion, gays and contraception with the greater need to make it a merciful, more welcoming place for all.
Six months into his papacy, Francis set out his vision for the church and his priorities as pope in a lengthy and remarkably blunt interview with La Civilta Cattolica, the Italian Jesuit magazine. It was published simultaneously Thursday in Jesuit journals in 16 countries, including America magazine in the U.S.
John Allen, a senior correspondent with the National Catholic Reporter, told CBS Radio News the pope is not changing church policy but makes it clear that he wants a less judgmental church.
"I think he is conscious that he's at a sort of make-or-break moment where the kind of pope he wants to be - if he wants to affect real change - he's got to be explicit about it," Allen said.
Play Video Pope's comments on gays could have ripple effect
Play Video Cardinal Dolan: Pope's views on gay priest are not a shift in church teaching
In the 12,000-word article, Francis expands on his ground-breaking comments over the summer about gays and acknowledges some of his own faults. He sheds light on his favorite composers, artists, authors and films (Mozart, Caravaggio, Dostoevsky and Fellini's "La Strada") and says he prays even while at the dentist's office.
But his vision of what the church should be stands out, primarily because it contrasts so sharply with many of the priorities of his immediate predecessors, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. They were both intellectuals for whom doctrine was paramount, an orientation that guided the selection of a generation of bishops and cardinals around the globe.
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
You mean music like:
I stand, I stand in awe of you.
I stand, I stand in awe of you.
Holy God to whom all praise is due,
I stand in awe of you.
Is this the "milquetoast" music of which you speak? To each his own, I guess.
And, he's still in the "honeymoon period" of his pontificate. I have a feeling that we ain't seen nothin' yet!
Mat 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Well said!
“Which is why, for instance, the Catholic Church recognizes the Sacraments of Baptism and of Matrimony as valid in all Christian denominations, even if those denominations themselves don’t see them as Sacraments”.
Except............
APOSTOLIC CHURCH: Invalid
An affirmative decision has been granted in one case involving “baptism” in the apostolic church. The minister baptized according to the second chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, and not St. Matthew. The form used was: “We baptize you into the name of Jesus Christ fo r the remission of sins, and you shall
receive a gift of the Holy Ghost.” No Trinitarian form was used.
CHRISTADELPHIANS: Invalid
Belief is in spiritual rebirth by immersion. Baptism appears
invalid since there is no belief in a Trinity, but in one God, Jesus, who was the son of God, but not God the Son. There is no Trinitarian formula, since there is no belief in the Trinity.
CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS: Invalid
The mother church of all Christian Science Churches states: “Baptism is an individual spiritual experience. It is not a religious rite or ceremony performed by an ordained minister or priest.” The textbook states that it is a purification by spirit. A letter from the board of directors states there is no baptismal ritual in the Christian Science movement. In other words, they have
no true baptism.
CHURCH OF DIVINE SCIENCE: Invalid
Apparently invalid baptism. Th e ceremony is a christening ceremony, but not one of baptism. There is no change brought about in the person who is blessed. The church does not believe in original sin, so that the child is blessed only when received into the church.
JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES: Invalid
An affirmative decision was granted in such a case because of lack of proper form and intention on the part of the ministers. It appears that t he Jehovah’s Witnesses are fundamentalists, Unitarians. The Divinity of Christ is explicitly denied, as is the existence of the Holy Spirit as a person. In the ceremony of baptism there is a discourse. It is really a symbol of dedication rather than baptism. The person enters the water, but his name is not called out. No words or formula are pronounced while the person is submerged or immersed in the water. If matter and form are valid, the intention of the minister is to
baptize the person into the Jehovah ‘s Witness sect, thereby not intending that the person be baptized in
the name of the triune God. This is evident since the Divinity of Christ and the personality of the Holy
Spirit are denied. These latter refer simply to a power exerted by Jehovah, who alone is God.
LATTER DAY SAINTS CHURCH (MORMON): Invalid
There is a dedication ceremony in which no water is used. Baptism takes place by immersion, but not before the age of 8. The Vatican Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith in 2001 declared this baptism invalid.
PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES: Invalid
Invalid baptism because of Unitarian formula. This is found in the official book of the Pentecostal Assembly. Yet baptism is considered necessary for salvation and is done by immersion. SALVATION ARMY: No Baptism
The Salvation Army Headquarters state they do not have a baptismal service, but a religious ceremony called a dedication service of children, and also a cradle role. A certifica te is issued for the dedication service, but is not to be confused with water baptism.
UNIVERSALISTS: Invalid
Universalists and Unitarians voted to merge in May of 1960, with the union taking effect in 1961. Even before that time, Universalists favored ultimate salvation and rejected original sin. With time, they denied the Trinity and the Divinity of Jesus.
Many of the faith communities you listed do not believe in the Trinity, nor in Jesus Christ as the eternal, Only-begotten Son of God, and so their identity as Christian is dubious.
AMEN!
That Gospel passage speaks to those who have sinned much greatly and who turned back to God with great repentence devotion to the mercy of God.
This is what the Pope has been preaching, calling those who who have offended God to turn back to HIM.
The media spin is in how they selectively pulled out 2 or 3 words here and there, and then wrote their secular/gay/whatever agenda around them to have the meaning be the opposite of what the Pope was saying if one read the entire interview. This pope has a different approach to how he deals with interviews and speaking out, but I’m convinced that he is not going to turn the Catholic Church into a weak version of the American Episcopal church.
Pope Francis is Catholic and will remain Catholic, no matter what the MSM may want him to become. Ignore the MSM articles on what he says, read the actual articles and think about what he is saying. Remember his style is different from Pope Benedict and may not be the same as yours. the MSM wants the pope to turn the Roman Catholic church into a secular version of the American Episcopal Church. He will never do that. They are caught up in their own ‘we must destroy Christianity’ lifestyle and belief.
Red, nicely said.
That would be nice, and I can see why you attempt to throw that beautiful blanket over this mess, but turning sinner back to Christ is what it is all about. But that isn't what the pope is doing.
calling those who who have offended God to turn back to HIM.
Again, no, he didn't.
Pope Francis tells atheists to ‘obey their conscience’
"Sin, even for those who have no faith, is when one goes against their conscience,” he added. “To listen and to obey to (one’s conscience) means to decide oneself in relation to what’s perceived as good and evil. And this decision is fundamental to determining the good or evil of our actions."
You can spin this 15 ways to Sunday Biggirl. It is isn't the media taking any of his words out of context, or any other conspiracy. It is the pope's own words that point out his lack of adherence to Scripture.
There is one way in God's throne room - His way.
To tell Billions of people that they can go their own way and still reach Christ is either a lie, or rampant ignorance of the Bible.
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Romans 2: 1 - 16
God provided a Way - and that is Christ Jesus. By no other way do we avoid Hell itself.
"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 14:6
I frankly do see a problem here, and it harks back more than a millennium. It harks back to a time when the early church, circa 300 AD, had a temptation presented to it on a silver platter. That temptation was called taking over the reins of a government. We had a flustered, perplexed emperor who thought the church had brilliant ideas, and put two and two together... except he did it in a worldly manner and not a gospel manner. Well, that resulted in an earthly church that was so weak its luminary could eventually “tell an atheist to follow his conscience” (doubtlessly hoping said conscience would eventually show said atheist the way to God, but sounding more like a 3rd century compromise). This weak, diluted faith would have made that church fade clear from the scene except for Christ’s own audacious promise which would then have had no witness at all. And so, like even heavily disobedient generations of Hebrew people did, it lived on under God’s own promise.
I see the Roman Catholic church headed back in an evangelical direction here. Evangelicals should be very careful when treating congregations that they are not personally familiar with, under standards that aren’t totally biblical. Biblical standards aren’t just about the entrance to heaven — they also bring in those pesky factors like God’s promises to the church and God’s provisions to the saved. I sometimes have to chuckle when I urge this or that Protestant to actually be MORE Protestant, not LESS, when criticizing something that is happening in the Roman Catholic church. Because that is the way to seeing the big picture of grace.
Thank-you for making my night with your response posting. God Bless.
metmom: Look who's talking......
I'm sure that passes for a response in your... world... But in mine, it's a sign of immaturity and spite.
I responded at length to a judgmental poster with quotes from Jesus I felt supported my position. The extremity of my statement was supported by the extremity I was responding to.
Do try to keep up - or at least remain quiet and learn when adults are having a discussion. Thanks SO much.
Yes, me. I am filled with the Holy Spirit and as such He directs me and gives me wisdom and knowledge of His word (His mind).
Come out of that abomination and dead religion called Catholicism. Until you do and are born again and filled with the Spirit, this self-righteous indignation will be all you have, along with a whole lotta ritual and sacrament and what-not.
None of your verses do as you are not a true believer (being Catholic). The only thing I am to do with unbelievers is speak truth and I am not required to do it softly or quietly.
You too can know the mind of God by being born again and indwelt with His Spirit. Or you can keep your religion and self-righteous indignation and let it lead you straight to hell. Your choice, Talisker.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I am not a Catholic.
However, unlike you, I don't loathe them, hate them, or damn them, either. I'll argue with them just fine, tho. And some of them I admire as living exactly as Jesus taught.
But then, I think that way about everyone. And the reason I do is, as you put it, I too "the am filled with the Holy Spirit and as such He directs me and gives me wisdom and knowledge of His word (His mind)."
However, unlike you (yet again), I don't think this is so rare. In fact, I think God talks to everyone on the planet, constantly.
That doesn't mean people listen. Or, having heard, want to admit to themselves what they have heard.
You have condemned me to hell, jodyel, unless I accept your personal teachings, which you have declared come from God.
I hear you, jodyel. I have heard a great many people like you, jodyel.
And it is my promise to you, told to me by God through the Holy Spirit, that you shall, without doubt, and without any possible escape, fully reap what you are sowing.
Have a nice day. : )
I am not condemning anyone to hell...if they have ears let them hear.
Doesn’t matter if you are Catholic or not, Talisker....my words are the same re: Catholicism. If you choose to defend a false religion that is up to you.
I have met some really lovely Catholics here...I have some wonderful gay friends......but I do not condone their false religion nor the lifestyle of my gay friends. And I do not hate or condemn them....Scripture condemns the sin and Scripture is clear on how salvation is received.
Even though you are not Catholic, Talisker, self-righteousness abounds in your words. And, no, God does not talk to everyone on the planet...the Spirit directs and gives wisdom and knowledge of the Lord. I think it is abundantly clear by the state of the world that most of it has completely disregarded God.
You can rail at me all you like, but it does not change the simple truth of the Gospel. You must be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. I do not believe anyone will ever learn that or find that in the RCC. And I stand by that.
Best to you,
jodyel
So you just want to bury your head in the sand and pretend he never said any of the stuff that the MSM is reporting?
If there is some context that you know of that the rest of us are missing, please, enlighten us.
Awesome, Old Yeller!
Would love to hear that story some time.
God bless you,
jodyel
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