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To: Nero Germanicus
I’m open to having my mind changed on this subject however. If you can find any judge in America who believes that native born and natural born are not synonymous, I’d love to read their opinion.

I've a better idea. Since we know that three different types of citizens exist (according to the framers) [Article II; Section I] (not including Naturalized citizens) why don't you find me a quote by a Federal Judge which states there is no difference.

“This section [of the 14th Amendment] contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two sources only: birth and naturalization. The persons declared to be citizens are “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

The 14th amendment did not deal with Presidential requirements. It dealt with the status of freed slaves.

To the board:

Folks...........consider. Why did the framers want only presidential candidates to be born of two citizen parents? Let's look at Bobby Jindal of Louisiana:

He was born in the United States (Baton Rouge) in 1971 to parents who were citizens of the nation of India. Thus, Bobby.....constitutionally is a "Native Born Citizen" but not a "Natural Born Citizen". Now think..........

It's sometime in the future and President Jindal is considering our nation's stance in the ongoing "Nuclear threats" between Pakistan and India. It is bringing the world closer to catastrophe every day.

Do you see the wisdom of our founders when they stipulated that only "Natural Born Citizens" should be the Commanders in Chief?

600 posted on 09/01/2013 2:16:01 PM PDT by Diego1618 (Put "Ron" on the Rock!)
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To: Diego1618
Why did the framers want only presidential candidates to be born of two citizen parents?

Did the Framers say that?

605 posted on 09/01/2013 2:23:01 PM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Tokyo Rove is more than a name, it's a GREAT WEBSITE)
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To: Diego1618
The most important message that the courts have tried to communicate to us is that they very prudently do not wish for themselves any power to disqualify presidential candidates based upon NBC eligibility issues. Under our Constitution, electors (not judges) select our presidents. The electors can read the Constitution just like judges can read the Constitution and are every bit as capable as judges of applying the eligibility standards as they are written. The Constitution does not provide for any judicial review of elector decisions.

Accordingly, when it comes to selecting presidents, the views of Supreme Court justices deserve no special weight. I recognize that there have been court opinions which have discussed the NBC clause, but never in the context of measuring the qualifications of any presidential candidate.

Our Constitution assigns to electors the power and the duty to interpret and apply the NBC clause to presidential candidates. They have done so without the assistance of courts for 57 straight presidential elections. After 2016, you can expect that number to be 58.

So, as a citizen, as a voter, you should make up your own mind about the precise meaning of the NBC clause. The courts and court opinions aren't going to perform that duty for you.

611 posted on 09/01/2013 2:37:01 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Diego1618

There are only two types of Amercan citizens, not three: (1) Citizens of the United States at Birth (which is the same as native born or natural born); and (2) Naturalized United States Citizens (cannot be President or Vice President).

Barack Hussein Obama, II had one U.S. citizen parent who was born in Wichita, Kansas and one non-citizen parent born in Kogelo, Kenya.

Here are four federal court rulings regarding Obama’s natural born citizen status plus six state court rulings which challenged Obama’s eligibility to be on a state’s ballot or to collect the votes of electors in a state:
Rhodes v. MacDonald, U.S. District Court Judge Clay D. Land: “A spurious claim questioning the president’s constitutional legitimacy may be protected by the First Amendment, but a Court’s placement of its imprimatur upon a claim that is so lacking in factual support that it is frivolous would undoubtedly disserve the public interest.”—U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Georgia, September 16, 2009.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/19809978/RHODES-v-MacDONALD-13-ORDER-denying-3-Motion-for-TRO-granting-8-Motion-to-Dismiss-Ordered-by-Judge-Clay-D-Land-on-09162009-CGC-Entered-0

Barnett v. Obama, U.S. District Court Judge David O. Carter: “There may very well be a legitimate role for the judiciary to interpret whether the natural born citizen requirement has been satisfied in the case of a presidential candidate who has not already won the election and taken office. However, on the day that President Obama took the presidential oath and was sworn in, he became President of the United States. Any removal of him from the presidency must be accomplished through the Constitution’s mechanisms for the removal of a President, either through impeachment or the succession process set forth in the Twenty-Fifth Amendment. Plaintiffs attempt to subvert this grant of power to Congress by convincing the Court that it should disregard the constitutional procedures in place for the removal of a sitting president. The process for removal of a sitting president—removal for any reason—is within the province of Congress, not the courts.”—U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, October 29, 2009
http://ia600204.us.archive.org/1/items/gov.uscourts.cacd.435591/gov.uscourts.cacd.435591.89.0.pdf

Ankeny v. Daniels, Indiana. A three judge panel of the Indiana Court of Appeals ruled unanimously: “Based on the language of Article II, Section 1, Clause 4 and the guidance provided by Wong Kim Ark, we conclude that persons born within the United States are ‘natural born citizens’ for Article II, Section 1 purposes, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.”—Indiana Court of Appeals, November 12, 2009
http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11120903.ebb.pdf

Taitz v. Obama (Quo Warranto) “This is one of several such suits filed by Ms. Taitz in her quixotic attempt to prove that President Obama is not a natural born citizen, as is required by the Constitution. This Court is not willing to go tilting at windmills with her.”— Chief U.S. District Court Judge Royce C. Lamberth, U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, April 14, 2010
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30040084/TAITZ-v-OBAMA-QW-23-MEMORANDUM-OPINION-dcd-04502943496-23-0

Tisdale v. Obama, U.S. District Court Judge John A. Gibney, Jr.: “It is well settled that those born within the United States are natural born citizens.”— Tisdale v Obama, U.S. District Court of the Eastern District of Virginia, January 23, 2012.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82011399/Tisdale-v-Obama-EDVA-3-12-cv-00036-Doc-2-ORDER-23-Jan-2012

Swensson, Powell, Farrar and Welden v. Obama, Administrative Law Judge Michael Mahili, State of Georgia Administrative Hearings,: “For the purposes of this analysis, the Court considered that Barack Obama was born in the United States. Therefore, as discussed in Ankeny, he became a citizen at birth and is a natural born citizen. Accordingly, President Barack Obama is eligible as a candidate for the presidential primary under O.C.G.A. under Section 21-2-5(b). February 3, 2012
http://www.scribd.com/doc/80424508/Swensson-Powell-Farrar-Welden-vs-Obama-Judge-Michael-Malihi-s-Final-Order-Georgia-Ballot-Access-Challenge-2-3-12

Allen v. Obama, Arizona Superior Court Judge Richard E. Gordon: “Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution and thus qualified to hold the office of President. Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise.”—Pima County Superior Court, Tuscon, Arizona, March 7, 2012
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84531299/AZ-2012-03-07-Allen-v-Obama-C20121317-ORDER-Dismissing-Complaint

Purpura & Moran v Obama: New Jersey Administrative Law Judge Jeff S. Masin: “No court, federal, state or administrative, has accepted the challengers’ position that Mr. Obama is not a “natural born Citizen” due to the acknowledged fact that his father was born in Kenya and was a British citizen by virtue of the then applicable British Nationality Act. Nor has the fact that Obama had, or may have had, dual citizenship at the time of his birth and thereafter been held to deny him the status of natural born. It is unnecessary to reinvent the wheel here. … The petitioners’ legal position on this issue, however well intentioned, has no merit in law. Thus, accepting for the point of this issue that Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a ‘natural born Citizen’ regardless of the status of his father.” April 10, 2012
http://www.scribd.com/doc/88936737/2012-04-10-NJ-Purpura-Moran-v-Obama-Initial-Decision-of-ALJ-Masin-Apuzzo

Voeltz v. Obama (Original Jurisdiction), Judge Terry P. Lewis, Leon County, Florida Circuit Court Judge: “However, the United States Supreme Court has concluded that ‘[e]very person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States. ‘Other courts that have considered the issue in the context of challenges to the qualifications of candidates for the office of President of the United States have come to the same conclusion.”—June 29, 2012
http://www.scribd.com/doc/99025994/FL-2012-06-29-Voeltz-v-Obama-order-dismissing-amended-complaint

Voeltz v. Obama (Request for Reconsideration), Judge John C. Cooper, Leon County, Florida Circuit Court Judge: “In addition, to the extent that the complaint alleges that President Obama is not a “natural born citizen” even though born in the United States, the Court is in agreement with other courts that have considered this issue, namely, that persons born within the borders of the United States are “natural born citizens” for Article II, Section 1 purpose, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.”—September 6, 2012
http://judicial.clerk.leon.fl.us/image_orders.asp?caseid=77182640&jiscaseid=&defseq=&chargeseq=&dktid=57485906&dktsource=CRTV

Can you provide a court ruling which says that Barack Obama’s lack of two U.S. citizen parents renders him ineligible? I’ll accept a ruling from any level of the judiciary.

As far as the wisdom of the Founding Fathers goes, I concur with the wisdom of the Founding Father who was dubbed “The Father of the Constitution,” James Madison: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States, it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other.”—Abridgment of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856 From Gales and Seatons’ Annals of Congress; from Their Register of Debates; and from the Official Reported Debates of United States. Congress by Thomas Hart Benton.


626 posted on 09/01/2013 3:17:27 PM PDT by Nero Germanicus
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