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To: David

He was a citizen at birth.

He was not NBC by virtue of his birth.

Wish like he was. But, what are we going to do here?

Sell our souls and make the openings for NWO and turn the US into a regional power but, under the views of a global government ?

That’s where this heads.


298 posted on 08/27/2013 9:07:41 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Vendome; bgill; Constitution 123; WildHighlander57; LucyT; Fred Nerks; Brown Deer; null and void
He was a citizen at birth. He was not NBC by virtue of his birth. Wish like he was. But, what are we going to do here?

That is essentially correct and this is an effort to summarize the political consequences as I see them.

I am also going to respond here to both points in Constitution's #300.

In #300, Constitution says: "That is why Natural Born Citizen means, A person born of citizen parents both mother and father loyal only to the USA. The founders understood this.

So in my opinion this means that Republicans Cruz, Jindal, Rubio or the current occupier of the White House, Obama, are NOT constitutionally eligible."

That's simply wrong. This stuff about the effect of citizenship of parentage and grand parentage is irrelevant. It almost certainly had nothing to do with the issue even at the time of the initial adoption of the Constitution.

I am not going to rewrite a brief here on the topic of Natural Born Citizen--if I ever get the opportunity to argue the case to the Supreme Court, I have a brief as well as a handful of opinions.

As I recall, the significant historical document is an exchange of letters, I believe between Washington and John Jay in which the author made the point that a requirement other than citizenship should be considered as a qualification for President because under applicable principles of international law, a person is subject to the sovereignty of the head of state where birth occurs.

More specifically, Washington, I believe, expressed the concern of the republicans that a person born in Canada under the sovereignty of England would attempt to return the US to English sovereignty. Although the Supreme Court often has said it doesn't consider legislative history in connection with Con Law issues, in the context of the issue arising with respect to two candidates both born in Canada, this is a particularly significant piece of history.

The rest of this which purports to come from Law of Nations is surplusage--there is historical doubt whether the edition of Law of Nations available to the founders even considered any of those points beyond the essential rule making persons subject to the sovereignty of the place of birth.

In the modern world, most Constitutional Scholars also believe that if there is any other requirement than place of birth, such requirements were merged in adoption of the 14th Amendment; I don't think so because I do not believe there was ever any other consideration than place of birth and I further am sufficiently knowledgeable today to say that the prevailing view means and means only that to be eligible to hold the office of President, an individual must have been born within the geographical confines of the several states.

I don't think Puerto Rico makes it any better than the territory of Arizona made it for Goldwater.

I will also say that I recognize that the Court is presently an increasingly political institution and if someone like Barry turned up born in Canada, the Liberal Press and the accessibility of people like Roberts to external pressures might very well get a different rule. I doubt that happens with a Conservative.

So under present law, I think Cruz would be held not eligible under the Natural Born clause.

What to do about it? There are a variety of reasons to clarify the meaning of the term--see John Dean's article, I believe in the Wall Street Journal; making the point that succession is not likely to be clear in the event of a National Emergency.

Today, I think there is some political leverage because of Barry's condition. That leverage diminishes as time passes. By December of 2015, it will be gone.

Unless we get the Cruz problem resolved, what is likely to happen is that Cruz appears as the ultimate strongest candidate in the pre-primary and caucus action and gets rid of all the other Conservative candidates. At that point, Bush or Christie appears with the support of the National Media making it clear the Court will hold Cruz ineligible; the Republican Party adopts a convention rule preventing nomination of candidates who are not eligible; we get a Bush nomination; and another Liberal President.

That is where we are headed. Under circumstances where we have been governed by a Liberal President for the last 30 years, the last eight years by a Liberal President who was probably also born in Canada.

One reason Conservatives never achieve their objectives is lack of competent legal help--maybe not surprising under conditions where most of the bar is Liberal.

As to Constitution's point about Barry--"If we take Obama at his word, his father was a Citizen of Kenya. Assuming that this is true, some assert that Obama is still a Natural Born Citizen because they claim that Natural Born means the same a born a citizen."

The short answer is that Barry was not born in Kenya and his father wasn't a citizen of Kenya either. His statements that he was born in Kenya are relevant to possible legal actions but he wasn't born there; and there is a high probability that he was in fact born in Canada. Proving it is going to require professional help that will cost significant amounts of money. Competent legal help is expensive--the Dems come up with the money to get the best; Republicans have relied on volunteers which isn't going to cut it.

307 posted on 08/28/2013 8:36:08 AM PDT by David
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