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To: Jeff Winston
I have made no false accusations, JW.

Not to you or about you. Just my observations of your behavior, along with what I was taught in school and the logic of how the related concepts apply to real life, so anyone can see them, if they want to.

You and your clan like to say that anyone born here is an American NBC.

Your clan also likes to say that a child born anywhere in the world is also a American NBC as long as one of that child's bio-parents is American. Either parent, doesn't matter which.

I guess if every child born here is a natural born citizen, no matter what, and any child born anywhere else is a natural born citizen, too, as long as some of their DNA is American, then America must be the all powerful ruler of the world!

We claim everyone!

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the FFs had in mind. All inclusive, we take anybody, rather than an exclusive position limited to the highest quality citizenship, for the single most powerful office in charge of the Armed Forces.

With such progressive thinking, you might think they'd have let everyone vote, too, even women!

412 posted on 07/29/2013 9:51:32 PM PDT by GBA (Our obamanation: Romans 1:18-32)
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To: GBA

From “The Father of the Constitution”

James Madison, House of Representatives
22 May 1789 Papers 12:179—82

It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other.


413 posted on 07/29/2013 10:32:38 PM PDT by Nero Germanicus
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To: GBA
No matter what the Founding Fathers had in mind, we KNOW that what they put to paper, in the form of the Constitution, does NOT require what the Birthers claim.
It is entirely possible that SOMEONE among the Founders might have sympathy with the Birther theory, but NONE of them ever reduced those feelings to writing.
And, as Justice Scalia says, the Founders did NOT “speak in code”. They wrote in such a way that they would be understood, even by those with little formal education.
Natural Born Citizen means Citizen at Birth and nothing else.
421 posted on 07/30/2013 10:16:35 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: GBA
I have made no false accusations, JW.

Of course you have, GBA.

You falsely accused me of lying, and of "selective editing."

The fact is, I've done as much as anyone to put the entire discussion into accurate context, and FAR more than birthers, who only selectively quote the things they think they can use to make their case, and throw away a wealth of material from the most credible sources.

If you don't think "false accuser" fits your character or who you want to be, then you need to take a step back and reassess, because it is an accurate description of your behavior.

...along with what I was taught in school and the logic of how the related concepts apply to real life, so anyone can see them, if they want to.

You have a theory. It's a nice sounding theory. In theory, it makes sense.

But it simply doesn't match our history and our law.

You don't do history by theory. You or I or some liberal can come up with any theory we like. Doesn't it sound good to say the Founding Fathers didn't want anyone in America to go hungry?

You do history, including the history of law, by looking at what actually happened, and what people said and did.

You don't start with some theory, and then try to cram the historical record into that. You start with the historical record. And the historical record will TELL you the correct theory, or the correct framework of ideas.

You and your clan like to say that anyone born here is an American NBC.

Your clan also likes to say that a child born anywhere in the world is also a American NBC as long as one of that child's bio-parents is American. Either parent, doesn't matter which.

I am only telling you what the FOUNDING GENERATION and ALL of our early legal experts ACTUALLY SAID.

The best legal minds of early America were crystal clear.

If you're born in America, it doesn't matter whether your parents are US citizens or aliens. You are a natural born citizen.

And if you're born a US citizen overseas because your parents were US citizens, it doesn't matter that you were born overseas. You are a natural born citizen, and you are eligible to be elected President.

That's what the best legal minds of the early United States, who knew our Founding Generation, many of whom knew major Founders personally, and who were in the absolute best position to KNOW what the Founders and Framers intended, have to say about the issue.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what the FFs had in mind. All inclusive, we take anybody, rather than an exclusive position limited to the highest quality citizenship, for the single most powerful office in charge of the Armed Forces.

No. We obviously DON'T take "anybody."

We take anybody WHO WAS BORN A UNITED STATES CITIZEN. Who did not have to acquire his or her US citizenship after birth, through a separate naturalization process.

And this is a restriction that many other countries don't have. You don't have to be a natural born citizen, for example, to become President or Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Austria, India, or Russia.

And these are major countries.

423 posted on 07/30/2013 10:50:22 AM PDT by Jeff Winston
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