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To: kristinn; E. Pluribus Unum

That’s a plausible scenario, kristinn, if you make certain assumptions about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.

Personally, though, I doubt many of the assumptions.

You assume, for example, that both parties were acting in a reasonable, responsible, adult manner.

I doubt that is the case.

Trayvon Martin was 17 years old and appears to have been a fairly tall kid. Around 6 feet. He had played football, so he was used to some physical engagement.

Martin was probably around 4 inches taller than Zimmerman. He was also 17 years old. 17 year old males are not known for their good judgment.

Martin is also known to have gotten into some trouble at school. Those types of issues can usually be categorized as including a lack of respect for authority.

He also appears to have been a gangsta wannabe.

In other words, Martin was 4 inches taller than Zimmerman, and he had an attitude.

We also know from the 911 call that Martin appears to have turned and approached Zimmerman, and then run away. His behavior, as described by Zimmerman, was rather strange and rather suspicious.

It looks likely to me that he was baiting Zimmerman, that he was itching for a confrontation.

Zimmerman, on his part, had gotten into a little bit of trouble as well: a mild scuffle with a police officer (which nonetheless seems to show a tendency towards scrappiness) and a restraining order alleging domestic violence.

So here you have a collision of two individuals, neither of whom appears to have been the type to shy away from a confrontation.

On the other hand, there is testimony that seems to indicate that Zimmerman, on the whole, is a pretty normal and generally decent guy.

I also find Zimmerman’s behavior after the incident to be interesting. As his lawyer noted, days went by and Zimmerman did not request a lawyer. An interesting case in which witnesses lawyered up, and the (eventually) accused did not.

All in all, there is no physical evidence at all that Zimmerman ever threw a punch at Martin. There is plenty of evidence that Martin assaulted Zimmerman. True, one does not find obvious blood or obvious dna evidence on Martin’s hands. But smashing someone’s nose with your fist isn’t likely to get blood on your hands. And Martin’s hands do not appear to have been handled properly to preserve any such evidence, which would likely have been minimal if detectable at all.

What seems certain in any event is that George Zimmerman did not smash his own nose and repeatedly slam his own head against the concrete. That is not a plausible scenario, and no one, including the prosecution, has suggested any party who might have done the damage to Zimmerman’s face and head other than Trayvon Martin.

So we can reasonably conclude that Trayvon Martin repeatedly punched George Zimmerman, but there is no evidence that Zimmerman ever hit Martin. There certainly is no evidence of Zimmerman throwing the first punch.

That also does not seem in Zimmerman’s character.

Zimmerman was also packing. I think it is safe to say that when someone is carrying a firearm, that significantly reduces the likelihood they are ever going to throw a first punch.

So we are back to the moment at which Zimmerman fumbles for his cell phone. Does Martin sincerely believe Zimmerman is looking for a gun to shoot him with? Possibly.

But that seems very doubtful to me.

Based on all I know of the case, including what we know of both Zimmerman and Martin, it seems more likely that what happened was along the lines of the characterization by “E. Pluribus Unum” in post 3.

So is George Zimmerman guilty of anything? If so, it appears to me that the worst thing that Zimmerman might be guilty of would be a bit of overzealousness and aggressiveness in confronting someone who he thought might be a troublemaker.

And that, friends, is not a crime.

Is it possible that Zimmerman failed to identify himself as a Neighborhood Watch captain? It’s possible.

But whatever Zimmerman said to Martin, if anything, it must have been along the lines of, “What are you doing?”

Such a comment would have been a clear indication that the person confronting Martin was not a thug trying to kill him, but someone wanting to know what Martin himself was doing, and whether he was up to no good.

Even if such a person WERE pulling a firearm, it would be clear that he was pulling a firearm NOT for the purpose of shooting you, but for the purpose of holding you until police could arrive and sort things out.

Given the circumstances and what we know of the players involved, I really can’t think of anything Zimmerman might have said to Martin that would have given him the reasonable expectation that Zimmerman was going to attack him.

And if the story is that Zimmerman erred by following Martin, then surely that works two ways. Surely Martin erred by apparently turning to confront Zimmerman.

Even if Zimmerman pursued Martin and said, “You there! What are you doing here?” - a scenario that we have no evidence for - all Martin had to do was say, “I’m visiting here and I have a right to be here,” and keep walking.

To sum up: I would repeat what E. Pluribus Unum said earlier.

“The only thing Little Trayvon had to do that night to not die was to not physically assault George Zimmerman, or anyone else.”


63 posted on 06/25/2013 10:45:14 AM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: Jeff Winston
We know from the timeline that if Martin had just walked back to his father's girlfriend's place after buying the stuff at the store, he would have been indoors maybe half an hour before Zimmerman went for a walk in the neighborhood. It was only because he was behaving suspiciously, standing on the grass in the rain looking into dark apartments, that Zimmerman got the idea that he was a potential burglar.

According to what GZ said a long time ago, it was only when Martin caught sight of his gun and tried to grab it that Zimmerman decided he had to use it to save his own life. Of course that was while he was having his head beat against the concrete and Martin was telling him he was about to die.

Hannity, who used to be sympathetic to Zimmerman, had Mark Fuhrmann and a Democratic woman on his show last night, both hostile to Zimmerman. Fuhrmann was minimizing Zimmerman's injuries and the Democratic woman suggested that Zimmerman should have just hit Martin on the side of the head with the gun. Unreal.

80 posted on 06/25/2013 3:10:14 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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