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Cash-only doctors abandon the insurance system [and their prices are much, much lower]
CNN ^ | June 11, 2013 | Steve Hargreaves

Posted on 06/15/2013 6:25:26 PM PDT by grundle

"The paperwork, the hassles, it just got to be overwhelming," Nunamaker said. "We knew that we had to find a better way to practice."

So Nunamaker and his partner set up a membership-based practice called Atlas M.D. -- a nod to free-market champion Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged.

By cutting out the middleman, Nunamaker said he can get a cholesterol test done for $3, versus the $90 the lab company he works with once billed to insurance carriers. An MRI can be had for $400, compared to a typical billed rate of $2,000 or more.

Nunamaker encourages his patients to carry some type of high-deductible health insurance plan in case of an emergency or serious illness. But for the everyday stuff, he said his plan works better for both doctor and patient.

"It would be like if car insurance paid for gas, oil and tires," he said. "It would be very expensive, and you'd have to get pre-approval for a trip out of town."

Kevin Petersen, a Las Vegas-based general surgeon, stopped taking insurance in 2005. Petersen named the same reasons as Nunamaker: too much paperwork and overhead, declining payments from insurance companies, and a general loss of control.

"The insurance industry took over my practice," he said. "They were telling me what procedures I could do, who I could treat -- I basically became their employee."

Now Petersen does hernia operations for $5,000 a pop, which includes anesthesia, operating room time and follow-up visits. He negotiates special rates for the anesthesiologist and the operating room, and is able to provide the service for about a third of what a patient might pay otherwise.

(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: abortion; deathpanels; healthcare; healthinsurance; obamacare; zerocare
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To: nascarnation

Well say they do 20 tests a day at $2000 a test and a machine costs $1 million. It is paid for pretty quick. But just to make sure a box of tissues is $50 and a couple of Tylenol are $10 apiece.


41 posted on 06/15/2013 7:27:33 PM PDT by bigheadfred (barry your mouth is writing checks your ass cant cash)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

My niece doesn’t remember, even though it was late last year. wierd.

Anyway, I am pretty sure it was this place:

http://www.spinewellnessclinic.com/


42 posted on 06/15/2013 7:27:46 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Like I said, my sister explained the situation (no insurance) about her daughter (17) and they offered to do this after regular hours for that price.

Maybe begging helps. lol.


43 posted on 06/15/2013 7:29:38 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
I read on ZeroHedge or Market Ticker a while back that if you got the government out of health care the cost of it would drop about 86%.

No doubt in my mind. Of course, that's why They want to insert government even further into things.

I bet any under-30 FReepers reading what I've said on this thread are scratching their heads and worrying that I've been seeing "substandard" care providers. After all, how can doctors and patients negotiate prices themselves? It (i.e., the free market) is unheard of!

44 posted on 06/15/2013 7:31:28 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1)
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To: GeronL

He is just doing GP stuff. So if I need my high blood pressure pills he charges me $20 for a phone in prescription and I send him a check. Don’t have to make the drive that would cost me $15 in gas. Don’t have to shell out $100 (at the clinic) to see a PA.


45 posted on 06/15/2013 7:31:39 PM PDT by bigheadfred (barry your mouth is writing checks your ass cant cash)
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To: bigheadfred

You will never get that service from Leviathan Care


46 posted on 06/15/2013 7:35:55 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: grundle

Relax there my friend, cause and effect, cause and effect. This will be the norm in the not to distant future. Home grown, the way it’s always been.
Fed’s stop it? yeah, just like they’ll take all our guns.


47 posted on 06/15/2013 7:37:49 PM PDT by Navy_Air (I get my news from Freerepublic)
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To: carriage_hill
But civilians back home still used local docs and paid in-kind, or what they could. Barter plus a little cash worked. But we sure didn’t have the medical system overhead we do today.

My grandfather was a "country doctor". His "territory" was a small town in Oklahoma and the surrounding farms.

Initially, he served them from a horse and buggy -- forded a flooding river once to deliver a child.

That's what he did, he delivered babies, he cared for their childhood afflictions, he set their bones and mended their wounds, he saw their parents into old age and comforted them in their last hours.

He was compensated by eggs, fresh garden vegetables, live chickens, a cured ham, an occasional side of beef and, every now and then, some cash.

He was proud of his profession. And never complained about his lot.

48 posted on 06/15/2013 7:42:12 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: driftdiver
I had a doctor tell me he couldn’t take cash patients. Apparently someone sued him on the grounds cash patients received better care.

Then he should have responded by treating ONLY cash patients.

49 posted on 06/15/2013 7:44:33 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: thecodont

Yes. Their in-house system became Kaiser Permanente.


50 posted on 06/15/2013 7:47:06 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: GeronL

Thank You! I will look at that site and then I will try begging if I have to. :-)


51 posted on 06/15/2013 7:53:51 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname (I really hate not knowing what was said in the deleted posts....)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

ive done some whining at the medicos whining helps too


52 posted on 06/15/2013 8:01:28 PM PDT by bigheadfred (barry your mouth is writing checks your ass cant cash)
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To: grundle

Its about time.


53 posted on 06/15/2013 8:11:33 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: jeffc
Can anyone say why that is, and/or how the lab got away with it, and/or why the insurance companies don't do a better job of trying to keep prices down?

I think a few factors combine to make the prices higher when using insurance.

You are paying for the people at the doctor's office to fill out the paperwork.

You're also paying for everyone who works for the insurance company to process the paperwork, check prices against the master list to see if the claimed price is allowed, and pay or refuse the claims.

Last, unlike most insurance, medical insurance doesn't just cover unusual expenses; it covers everything. I saw medical insurance once described as "an expensive pre-paid medical plan", which is pretty accurate. One way to keep costs down is to shift the responsibility for paying back to the patient.

54 posted on 06/15/2013 8:25:57 PM PDT by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: grundle
"Now Petersen does hernia operations for $5,000 a pop, which includes anesthesia, operating room time and follow-up visits."

I just paid $46,000, as my portion of the bill including hospital for a hernia operation... This is about double what I paid two years ago... sheeesh

55 posted on 06/15/2013 8:32:24 PM PDT by carlo3b (Less Government, more Fiber)
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To: workerbee

“Not me. As soon as there’s a “registry”, these guys will be in jail.”

It’s illegal?


56 posted on 06/15/2013 8:55:49 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: jeffc
Can anyone say why that is, and/or how the lab got away with it, and/or why the insurance companies don't do a better job of trying to keep prices down?

To bill the $3 in a manner the insurer will pay including justifications, coding, and time office staff has to work to get actual payment the bill to the insurance might be $90 but that doesn't mean the doctor gets that nor for that matter even paid at all.

Insurers especially HMO's and newly added paper work mandates by the feds have driven cost to the roof. I noticed Thursday when I got a physical the doctors exam time was about 20 minutes. His time afterward on the computer was another 15-20 minutes because government and insurers thinks they have a right to know every aspect of his work and your treatment. Last year our doctor didn't have to do this. Then you have some pencil pushing Nerd sitting in the insurance compaines claims processing office who will wiz his pants in delight when he finds a slight coding error and can deny the claim making the doctors office staff refile.

Who is the driving corporate interest backing Obamacare? You need to look no further than the health care insurance companies. Insurers take extra measures to deny, delay, or reduce payments for services rendered. In 1970 most doctors only needed a part time billing clerk even to handle Medicare/Medicaid and private insurance claims. Then came St Teddy The Swimmers HMO ACT of 1973. That was the beginning of the end of affordable private insurance and the beginning of health care rationing. Most HMO's are owned by big name private insueres.

57 posted on 06/15/2013 8:56:36 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?)
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To: grundle

My doctor is concierge. She has annual yearly membership fees, for single, couple and family. I love it. I can get an appt with ease, if I have a question or problem I can call and she returns the call. I get a superbill and send it into my secondary since medicare will not honor it. My doctor does not take any ins. And she carries a patient load of 200. I will keep this physician as long as I can afford it. She will bill her membership fee monthly if that is what works for you.


58 posted on 06/15/2013 9:03:04 PM PDT by celtic gal
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To: Persevero

Search concierge care or medicine in your area.


59 posted on 06/15/2013 9:10:28 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: nascarnation

There are some fairly substantial operating costs too. MR techs make a nice salary and there are significant bills for power and service.


60 posted on 06/15/2013 9:10:45 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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