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To: Ray76

” According to the above, you could become a naturalized citizen of Pennsylvania by residing in the state two years and paying a state or county tax.

The son of a citizen has no such requirement, no statutes, no particular action, but he is a citizen. Such is a natural born citizen.”

State laws on state citizenship varied, but US law - that which applies today, other than residency requirements for voting in a state - had those born in the US born citizens, regardless of parentage. Those born to citizen abroad have also regularly been born citizens, and do not undergo naturalization. Naturalization is what the two kids I adopted went thru, to become US citizens well after their births.

As for James Wilson:

“Between a subject naturalized and a subject natural born, the distinction is merely nominal as to private rights: it applies only to the manner, in which those rights are devolved. On one they are devolved by his birth: on the other, by the consent of the nation, expressed in the parliament. With regard, however, to publick rights, the case is widely different. By statutes made even since the revolution, no subject naturalized can be a member of parliament; and no bill for naturalization can be received in either house of parliament, without such a disabling clause...

...What a very different spirit animates and pervades her American sons! Indeed it is proper that it should do so. The insulated policy of the British nation would as ill befit the expansive genius of our institutions, as the hills, the ponds, and the rivulets, which are scattered over their island, would adequately represent the mountains, and rivers, and lakes of the United States...

...In a former lecture,z we have seen how easily the essential rights of citizenship can be acquired in the United States, and in every state of the Union. Let us now see, how liberally the doors are thrown open for admission to the publick trusts and honours, as well as to the private rights and privileges, of our country.

At the end of two years from the time, at which a foreigner “of good character”—for numbers without virtue are not our object—a former mode of “better peopling his majesty’s plantations” is now fallen into disrepute—at the end of two years from the time,a at which a foreigner of good character sets his foot in this land of generosity as well as freedom, he is entitled to become, if he chooses,b a citizen of our national government. At the end of seven years, a term not longer than that which is frequently required for an apprenticeship to the plainest trade, the citizen may become legislator; for he is eligible as a representative in the congress of the United States.c After having, in that capacity, undergone the honourable but short probationship of two years, the doors even of our national senate are opened as far as to receive him.”

Note there is only one office not open to a naturalized citizen - the Presidency. That demonstrates that the NBC clause is to prevent naturalized citizens from being President. And as the alternative to naturalized citizens, there is, in the US Constitution, natural born citizens. Those citizens not naturalized, but citizens from birth, are in the second category, in opposition to the definition of the first.


303 posted on 05/11/2013 7:00:44 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers
State laws on state citizenship varied, but US law - that which applies today, other than residency requirements for voting in a state - had those born in the US born citizens, regardless of parentage.

Which does not create a natural born citizen as understood by the Founders.

You have previously relied on English common law. For example in Post 153:

All persons born in the allegiance of the King are natural-born subjects, and all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens. Birth and allegiance go together. Such is the rule of the common law, and it is common law of this country, as well as of England.
"Born in the allegiance of the United States". Allegiance is political not territorial.

Sen. Trumbull, framer of 14th Amendment:

The provision is, that "all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens." That means "subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof." What do we mean by "complete jurisdiction thereof?" Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.
Notice that "jurisdiction" is political not territorial.

Even Calvins Case, to which you alluded:

"And it is to be observed, that it is nec coelum, nec solum, neither the climate nor the soyl, but ligeantia and obedientia that make the subject born: for if enemies should come into the realm, and possess a town or fort, and have issue there, that issue is no subject to the King of England, though he be born upon his soyl, and under his meridian, for that he was not born under the ligeance of a subject, nor under the protection of the King."
Born in "the ligeance of a subject"

So what exactly is your point?

Note there is only one office not open to a naturalized citizen - the Presidency. That demonstrates that the NBC clause is to prevent naturalized citizens from being President. And as the alternative to naturalized citizens, there is, in the US Constitution, natural born citizens. Those citizens not naturalized, but citizens from birth, are in the second category, in opposition to the definition of the first.

Partly correct.

The question in WKA:

The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
Was answered by declaring WKA to be a citizen under the 14th Amendment.

Prior to WKA there were two kinds of citizenship: native or natural born, and naturalized. Subsequent to WKA this is no longer true.

Gray misinterpreted the jurisdiction clause of the 14th Amendment applying it in a territorial rather than political sense, substituting domicile of the parents for citizenship of the parents.

The result of this broadened interpretation was that the children of aliens became citizens.

The court created a distinction where none had existed. It severed "native born citizen" from "natural born citizen".

Subsequent to WKA there are three kinds of citizenship: native born, natural born, and naturalized.

Article II's natural born citizen requirement is untouched.

Article II does not specify "no person except a naturalized citizen", Article II specifies "no person except a natural born citizen"

305 posted on 05/12/2013 12:06:13 AM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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