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To: Jeff Winston
You'll have to show me where it says that.

Would it do any good if I did?

243 posted on 05/10/2013 2:47:12 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
Ha. I've found it.

Wow. Just when I think the well of birther twistings and other BS has to be about dry, you come up with something new. Well, points for BS creativity.

First, let's note that you've shifted from James Falconer Wilson (post-Civil-War era), because you got your clock cleaned there, to James Wilson, foreign-born Framer from the Founding era.

You are like a snake in the fire. You are burned over here, so you twist and squirm and thrash over into a different part of the fire.

The Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776:

SECT. 5. The freemen of this commonwealth and their sons shall be trained and armed for its defence under such regulations, restrictions, and exceptions as the general assembly shall by law direct, preserving always to the people the right of choosing their colonels and all commissioned officers under that rank, in such manner and as often as by the said laws shall be directed. SECT. 6. Every freemen of the full age of twenty-one years, having resided in this state for the space of one whole year next before the day of election for representatives, and paid public taxes during that time, shall enjoy the right of an elector: Provided always, that sons of freeholders of the age of twenty one years shall be intitled to vote although they have not paid taxes.

So the freemen of Pennsylania (and their sons) had military obligations, and the right to vote.

Virtually no one ever regarded having the right to vote as a requirement for "citizenship." The US Supreme Court certainly didn't. They said that women and children born were both citizens, even though neither possessed the right to vote.

But James Wilson, who was a Framer and one of our first Supreme Court Justices, oddly, used the word "citizen" to mean someone who was in a position to exercise the right of political engagement:

“Generally speaking,” says the great political authority, Aristotle,* “a citizen is one partaking equally of power and of subordination.”

A citizen then—to draw his description as one of the people—I deem him, who acts a personal or a represented part in the legislation of his country. He has other rights; but his legislative I consider as his characteristick right. In this view, a citizen of the United States is he, who is a citizen of at least some one state in the Union: for the members of the house of representatives in the national legislature are chosen, in each state, by electors, who, in that state, have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the state legislature. In this view, a citizen of Pennsylvania is he, who has resided in the state two years; and, within that time, has paid a state or county tax: or he is between the ages of twenty one and twenty two years, and the son of a citizen.

Oddly, Wilson says that a "citizen" is someone who has resided in the State for two years AND paid a state or county tax.

Well, what about those who had no cause to pay a tax? Weren't they citizens of Pennsylvania?

According to Wilson, they weren't.

What about the women? They had no part in the political process. And their husbands paid the taxes. According to Wilson, wives weren't citizens of Pennsylvania.

And what about everyone under age 21? They weren't citizens, either.

So according to "this view" of a citizen, people who were born in Pennsylvania, had lived there their entire lives, and were 20 years old, weren't citizens of Pennsylvania.

And women, most of them at least, were NEVER citizens of the State.

But note what's NOT mentioned here: you certainly didn't have to have citizen parents in order to be a "citizen."

In fact, it looks like you didn't even have to APPLY.

You just had to move into the State, live there for 2 years, and pay some taxes.

So you could be born in Russia of Russian parents, move to PA, live there for 2 years, pay taxes, and you were a citizen.

In any event, it is obvious that Wilson is using the word "citizen" here as an equivalent for "eligible participant in the political process." Children are not citizens, whatever their place of birth and parentage. Women are not citizens, whatever their place of birth and parentage.

And of course, nowhere does he say that anyone has to be born of citizen parents in order to be a natural born citizen.

So once, again: Another truckload of bullcrap.

We've got enough now from you to fertilize a whole farm.

247 posted on 05/10/2013 3:16:06 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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