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To: Jvette
Non Catholics say faith alone, but here in this thread, seem to be judging his faith by his actions, which is exactly what the Church teaches.

It is faith alone. Faith produces works. If the works are absent, there is good reason to conclude that the saving faith is as well.

Jesus said that the world would know His followers by their love and that if we loved Him, the natural outworking of that would be to obey Him.

Chavez demonstrated neither in his life.

Anyone with the mentality that they can live like they please and then ask for forgiveness in the end and they'll be good has not had the heart change necessary for salvation. There has been no repentance.

Maybe Chavez really did. MAYBE. But it is highly unlikely, and *accepting* Christ for fire insurance is merely trying to avoid hell, not being repentant for wrongs done.

As for praying for his soul, if it makes a Catholic feel better, fine, but it's a waste of time. Our decision is made here on earth and death seals it.

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

The only way sin is forgiven is through the shedding of blood,. Suffering does not *pay for sins* because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness. If he had been forgiven, God does not count his sin against him. There is nothing left to pay for as he has the righteousness of Christ credited to his account.

Purgatory is an unscriptural doctrine, not supported anywhere from the Bible.

It doesn't work because it CAN'T work.

161 posted on 03/10/2013 5:25:18 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

This all sounds so well and good but, unfortunately, it leads to presumption, which is a sin in itself.

One’s sins are forgiven and one can only be saved because Christ died for our redemption.

The problem lies in the thinking that there is no punishment for sin and that is why so many live lives that are full of sin without any guilt or fear of punishment.

Divorce, abortion, adultery, gossip, theft, lies, envy, greed all are practiced by professed Christians who shrug and say, no one’s perfect and God loves me.

Read St. Paul in Romans as he lists those who not inherit the kingdom because of their sinful ways. He is speaking to BELIEVERS! And yes, those who accept Jesus do have a change in heart and a change in their lives, if they not only accept His grace, but also His commandments and His chastisement.

St. Paul says the things he would do he does not do and those things he would not do he does. St. Paul sinned after his conversion, just as we all do and forgiveness is there when we repent of those sins.

Now regarding Chavez, he lived his faith as he thought it should be lived. He rebelled against the Church when it suited him and called upon it when that suited him. He interpreted the Bible his own way to justify his socialism.

As I said, he lived his faith imperfectly. But, even so, he did profess a belief in Jesus, he did try to follow Him even if it was not always the way the Church would have it, or the way metmom would have it or the way many others here would have it.

He may have lied about his faith for personal gain.

I don’t know. No one knows as we do not know his heart. Only God knows and only God judges him.

Purgatory is in fact very Scriptural as we know that the time of our death is uncertain and we will most likely die with sin staining our soul. As nothing unclean can enter the presence of God in His kingdom, purification is a blessing and not a curse.

Elijah came before the Lord and bemoaned that he was unclean. An angel brought a coal from the fire and touched it to his lips and he was cleaned. Also, St. Paul tells us that our actions will be judged and all that is bad will be burned away and that only the pure will remain.

Again, one cannot use a non Catholic belief against a Catholic as the Catholic already rejects it. So, in the Catholic church, Hugo Chavez, as a member of the church, who received the Sacraments would merit a funeral Mass.

Just because non Catholics do not agree because they do not understand, does not mean the Church was wrong.


176 posted on 03/11/2013 5:49:19 PM PDT by Jvette
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