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To: metmom
Of course it does. Catholics even quote the part where they claim Jesus gave Catholic clergy the right to retain or remit sins, which they claim very effectively destines a soul to heaven or hell.

Jesus definitely gave His power to forgive sins to those He chose to lead His church,

Peace be with you, as my Father sent me, so I send you. And with that He breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgiven, they are forgiven. Whose sins you retain they are retained. "John 20:21-23.... Pretty clear to me.

The Church does not claim they effectively destine a soul to heaven or hell. That is a misstatement of Catholic doctrine and teachings. Not surprising as every time I engage with a non Catholic here, the incredible ignorance of true Catholic teachings is more and more revealed.

Besides, the article was posted about how the RCC treats men like Chavez as members in life and death. Daniel has posted the Catholic church's own policies in dealing with people who live like those men do and does not follow through with what they claim to teach.

Both men were in fact members and were chastised in life for their errors though never ex communicated officially by the Church. Of course, they may have effectively ex communicated themselves by their actions, but they were still members of the faith and therefore, they were buried with the hope and prayers of the Church that they may be saved.

If the Church reserved funerals for only those who had no sin upon death, there would likely be no funerals as we are all sinners.

The thread has been sidetracked to get the attention off that point.

In what way has it been sidetracked?

The discussion is about whether or not Chavez should have been given a Catholic funeral and that is what I have been discussing.

146 posted on 03/09/2013 6:37:32 PM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette

Jesus answered some of your questions in chapter 7 of the gospel of Matthew:

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will [k]know them by their fruits. [l]Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will [m]know them by their fruits.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [n]miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.


149 posted on 03/09/2013 8:07:13 PM PST by bramps (Sarah Palin got more votes in 2008 than Mitt Romney got in 2012)
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To: Jvette
The Church does not claim they effectively destine a soul to heaven or hell. That is a misstatement of Catholic doctrine and teachings.

Then what's the point of claiming the authority to do so other than a control mechanism to keep the masses in line with hanging their eternal destiny over their heads for non-compliance to the RCC?

160 posted on 03/10/2013 5:14:37 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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