[nonsporting]

[I wrote:] A teacher or adminstrator who is competent enough to carry a concealed weapon can defend himself. Others may benefit. [You responded:} Or may not.

Do you have any experience? Or training? Or is it limited to video games?

You really don't seem that knowledgeable to me. I mean, no offense, Mr. Expert, but why allow the shooter to reach the confines of the classroom when you could have taken him out long before he ever got there? If your only defense are at the treasure itself, then the infiltrator must actually arrive at the treasure before he encounters any defense, and that would be a last line of defense by definition, now wouldn't it?

I don't make the faulty assumption that a security officer will be anywhere near the shooter or even be able to engage him when he first enters the school/facility. A number of recent after-action assessments reveal this. There are some notable exceptions where private individuals who are in proximity respond and reduce the killing.

• We know from Columbine that armed security did engaged but broke engagement. That gave the shooters minutes to kill before other armed security arrived.
• Virginia Tech had no security in the area. Students barricading behind doors and desks proved ineffective. Cho used a handgun, a Glock 19 in 9mm.
• At New Life Community Church (Springfield CO) two people were killed in the parking lot. When the shooter entered the sanctuary, Jean Hassan (a church member who volunteered for security) ran to engage the shooter stopping him.
• Private armed security at Ft Hood, Munley and Todd, engaged Hasan minutes after he began. Munely was hit twice and incapacitated. Todd stopped Hasan (how many school security officers are we going to employ? Looks like we should have at least two.) Hasan used an FN five-seven, a 22cal handgun.

The irony of this last case is that Ft. Hood policy is to disarm the enlisted, making this army base a gun free zone, perfect for a terrorist like Hasan. Armed security was able to stop him, but only after many were killed. Had Ft. Had Hood personnel NOT been disarmed, Hasan would have met return fire much earlier. It might (yes MIGHT) have discouraged him from even undertaking this mayhem. I am pushing for NOT disarming the ENLISTED, that includes teachers, administraters, anyone who will be the FIRST RESPONDERS. They have a strategic advantage due to their numbers and their proximity to the intended targets.

Of course I use language such as may and might because there are no certainties in these scenarios, only likelihoods. But we can learn from trends. Here's one analysis of trends which has a significant bearing on this discussion. The only public policy which has impacted mass public shootings favorably is liberalized concealed carry: Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws.

In the classroom I have yet to encounter the disrespect and proud ignorance I find on the forums. The apparent anonymity seems to afford some the luxury of insult. (The term "half ass" is extremely insulting. I cut you some slack, because your word choice suggests you may not be a native English speaker). I have given you several opportunities to flash your credentials and aire your knowledgeable background and experience. You have opinions. But you clearly have not adequately analyzed the various scenarios. Nor do you have any training (you haven't volunteered this knowledge) in hostage rescue, street survival, multiple target engagement, close quarter combat or any scenario that might begin to forge some understanding of the complex process known as combat.

I encourage you to read the Lott/Landis paper. If you do not own a firearm, I would encourage to get one and take defensive handgun training. (As one of my training partners would say "You don't know what you don't know.").

[chris37]

I’m just a noob from the streets of New Orleans.

I know you’ve never heard of the Half Fast Marching Club, but hey we say things a little different down here and that makes us stupid.

I’ve had no experience at all of trying to stay alive.

I don’t own any guns, or knives, or bows, or crossbows or batons, or spray or tasers or anything of the sort. I’ve never studied martial arts. I don’t even have hands.

You are the master of security. That’s obvious, I mean the way you want your only line of defense to be at the targets themselves is sheer genius.

Incidentally, I never said I don’t want school personnel to be armed. What I’ve said is that it’s not enough. Let’s hope Beslan never occurs here, I mean assuming that it won’t is better than preparing for it, right?

Anyway, you may want to implement some of your inadequate defenses at your local soft target, because the fact of the matter is nothing is going to be done, and this will happen again.

It’s plainly obvious to me that people do not want to protect their children, so they will remain unprotected. That reality renders this conversation moot and about as useless as your half assed measures.

So here’s to hoping that the wolves never arrive at the sheep, because as well all know hope is for the weak, and that describes what this country has become perfectly.

Have a nice day.